OK so what about Jarvis' return...?

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pariah
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Re: OK so what about Jarvis' return...?

Post by pariah »

TapsC wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:51 pm
Also I have to agree that failure to qualify for the world cup with these 2 guys would be a massive disappointment. Afghanistan kept on edging us 3-2 so surely getting supposedly world class players should put us back in contention especially at home as well. they are only 2 points ahead of us as well. A lot of money has been paid and unusually long contracts given to BT and Jarvis so we should expect world class performances in return. its only fair. its time to produce the results now. crazy how 6 months can change the whole equation and expectations.
Fans here at ZCF can attempt to ignore that one, but Taibu and the Pakistani will inevitably fall by that sword. People involved in cricekt in Zimbabwe at Admin level are not that stupid. If the requisite results don't come it will be damaging to many reputations.

It's not that Zimbabwe hasn't been employing reverse-quotas, supposedly on merit (I'll give them the benefit of doubt to avoid arguments). But like I remarked in my return post, several changes have been made already, and the "preferred team" actually been amassing some of the worst results in Zimbabwe's history. Which means it actually regressed, drastically in may way. With these two it actually adds to the pressure. The new Zimbabwe must not just improve to the levels before they started culling supposedly non-performing players. It must improve beyond that.

So what happens if the team doesn't?

pariah
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Re: OK so what about Jarvis' return...?

Post by pariah »

CrimsonAvenger wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:53 pm
If Byrom comes back:

Byrom
Raza
Masakadza
Taylor
Ervine
Williams / Mire
Chakabva
Cremer
Shingi / Tiripano
Jarvis
Chatara

Waller
Moor
Musakanda

I'd open with Raza as brmtaylor.com admin quoted elsewhere, and relieve both the makeshift openers to get to their comfort zones. Mire at 6 is an exciting prospect, may be in seaming conditions. Williams the batsman needs to do more to keep his spot for much longer as one 100 and a 50 in 14 innings is nothing to write home about. If not Mire, Waller and Moor could be fighting for that number 6 spot too, with their aggressive approach based on form. Also in as cover is Musakanda. We need to blood him in the squad as he seems to have that X factor in him. If Taylor keeps, Waller / Musakanda in for Chakabva.
Raza opening and Hami at 3 has always been my argument. I'm glad both you and BRM agree. I'm also glad both of you agree with Chakabva as the designated keeper, although I think he's a better Test batsman than Williams(and definitely Mire), so should bat at 6 rather in that line up.

Number 7 will inevitably be a batting allrounder's position, but for a seamer. Chamu, Mire and Elton are the front runners. Young William Mashinge being number 4, with Jongwe gone.

With Taylor back, surely someone must be brave enough to say he can have the captaincy back, and Cremer is not the automatic frontline spinner. Never has such a flawed and questionable player in a key role had zero pressure applied on him by fans in my history of following the game and engaging with fans.

I don't think the likes of Burl and Musakanda will ge a look in unless they outbat Vusi, Williams and Malcolm in the Logan Cup.

Glad to see Shingi in there. Zimbabwe need a genuine FC wicket-taker who is durable and has stamina with those two in there now. Big change in altitude for Jarvis, and Chatara's injury side-effects will never completely leave him. Even Panyangara would have needed a Shingi-type player next to him.

But the big question is Craig has scored 2 tons ad 3 fifties since Taylor left. Taylor has always struggled away. (Ignoring where I would have positioned Taylor to begin with) Shouldn't Taylor be the number 5, and Craig the number 4? The difference may appear minor, but it's not. I don't think Craig will do that well at 5.

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eugene
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Re: OK so what about Jarvis' return...?

Post by eugene »

No spin bowler all-rounder at 7?
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pariah
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Re: OK so what about Jarvis' return...?

Post by pariah »

eugene wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:40 pm
No spin bowler all-rounder at 7?
:lol: Shakib and Moeen Ali have turned the world upside down. Thank god Sobers bowl medium pace! :lol:

On form I think Cremer can seriously argue he's a better Test batsman than both Malcolm and Williams, and that would be statistically accurate. Look at Cremer's stats in LOIs as a batsman and argue that he can't genuinely improve his batting. Rememer that i the twilight of his career, Streak actually proved he was a very capable batsman, and those farmers just didn;t give him a chance. I stick my neck out and say this time next year Cremer's batting might very well be the key thing that keeps him in the Test XI. Maybe then you can have your "No spin bowler all-rounder at 7" :lol:

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Re: OK so what about Jarvis' return...?

Post by Kriterion_BD »

pariah wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:06 pm
Kriterion_BD wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:47 pm
HHM/pariah...surely, there is no way you can gloss over that fact. The ZC Pakistani in less than 6 months in charge has brough the two most talented ZIM players post-2004 back.
If you're measuring the Pakistani from a player perspective, then ZC losing Jongwe, while not using Wellington, Panyangara and Chisoro under his watch, is a way bigger downside than the upside of the return of Taylor and Jarvis. Three of those four have genuine world class stats in formats, with the youngster Jongwe extremely impressive. So the ZC Pakistani has regressed in my view. Targetting Jarvis and Taylor, as opposed to Byrom and Welch(if they were within reach), is even more stupid business/sporting sense from him.
I've seen Jongwe and he is young. But frankly I don't see much talent with either bat or ball. And following US sports, you learn to get a very good eye for raw talent once you figure out what other sports are about.

Wellington has done well, but hasn't taken anything by storm.

Panyangara has struggled with fitness and frankly I don't see him being a penatrative bowler in any format despite him having a world class Test average so far. Key words being so far.

Chisoro is a big loss, I will agree. He - unlike the 3 guys above - has actually performed at a very high level in whatever chances he has got. But if he can't bat, its hard to fit a 2nd spinner in given the strategy for ZIM has been to pick 8-9 batsmen in recent times.
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Re: OK so what about Jarvis' return...?

Post by Kriterion_BD »

pariah wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:14 pm

So what happens if the team doesn't?
Pariah you accused me - in this case a correct accusation! - of not being a ZIM cricket well-wisher. But I am happy to admit it and say yes, I root against ZIM. It is totally unfair for Ireland to be doing all the right things for the better part of a decade and get 10% of the money the ZC does just because they are a full member - despite losing to Ireland as often as they win. Its ridiculous for the Afghans to be undefeated in 4 bilateral series against Zimbabwe and still not get the opportunities that the ZC ends up squandering inevitably.

If ZC doesn't give a shit, why should I?

But now that ZC has some semblence of stability, has players I would actually pay to watch (as a neutral) in Taylor, Ervine, Jarvis, Cremer, has something of a forward vision...it now seems that you, HHM/pariah, are the one who seems to be rooting for ZIM's failure.

Its OK, I can understand.

The reason I follow the Bangladesh cricket team is because the players look like me, and have names that sound like mine. If the team was full of minorities, I wouldn't be bothered to care either because I would feel that it doesn't represent me. But I admit it.
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pariah
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Re: OK so what about Jarvis' return...?

Post by pariah »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:59 pm
Pariah you accused me - in this case a correct accusation! - of not being a ZIM cricket well-wisher. But I am happy to admit it and say yes, I root against ZIM. It is totally unfair for Ireland to be doing all the right things for the better part of a decade and get 10% of the money the ZC does just because they are a full member - despite losing to Ireland as often as they win. Its ridiculous for the Afghans to be undefeated in 4 bilateral series against Zimbabwe and still not get the opportunities that the ZC ends up squandering inevitably.

If ZC doesn't give a shit, why should I?

But now that ZC has some semblence of stability, has players I would actually pay to watch (as a neutral) in Taylor, Ervine, Jarvis, Cremer, has something of a forward vision...it now seems that you, HHM/pariah, are the one who seems to be rooting for ZIM's failure.

Its OK, I can understand.

The reason I follow the Bangladesh cricket team is because the players look like me, and have names that sound like mine. If the team was full of minorities, I wouldn't be bothered to care either because I would feel that it doesn't represent me. But I admit it.
I don't think you understand me, and no matter how many times I break it down, you still don't get it. Look I supported the Boks, and various Currie Cup sides, on radio and TV for several years, yet not a single Black player played. It was the same with the Proteas and the frachises for many years. Likewise with ZImbabwe cricekt by the way. My support for the All Blacks came much later, but of cause the Windies were always ahead of the proteas in my heart. I am more than capable of rooting for an all white team, and picking those players. I still want Frylinck to play for the Proteas in all formats. I'm absoutely dumbfounded why he's not picked. Equally, I was shocked guys here felt they could afford to overlook Duffin and Ewing (and secretly I think they will agree that was the best approach :D ).

The point is all decisions must have a basis or they will inevitably flop. SA has suffered the same in its selections for a long time now becuase they thought they could ignore stats or force players into the side. Zimbabwe is suffering from the same - not dropping whom they should, ignoring talent and thinking there there is better, while also overrating certain players despite evidence on the contrary. For all of Taylor, Ervine, Jarvis and Cremer, I can give you a long list of Proteas who have been absolute flops since the Proteas transition in the 00s to now.

In SA you recall that we also had a strategy to bring back players from County cricekt in England. But with Ryan McLaren he was simply told if you give up your contract we'll pick you in the LOI sides. That's the only assurance he was given. Not money etc.

ZC is acting desperate, going the extra mile, and putting unnecessary safety-nets, yet ZIM still lost to IRE and AFG with Taylor there and even you must admit that Jarvis is not skilled enough to be a difference in LOIs. This is where I'm professionally, statistically, financially and ethically correct and you are wrong. What ZC has done is in all honesty very hard to justify by those four measures.

I posed qustions in a post which neither Taibu, the Pakistani nor Streak would want to or can answer in a presser. It's that bad!

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Re: OK so what about Jarvis' return...?

Post by jaybro »

Hhm logic

Claims he supports whites by supporting the inclusion of Duffin & Ewing who were never going to be picked so there was no danger of them being selected.

Whilst he tries to find every little negative about bringing back two established County players who are clearly walk up starts in the Zim side = BT & KJ

It's all bullshit

Hhm is all bullshit
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eugene
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Re: OK so what about Jarvis' return...?

Post by eugene »

Pariah was quite a fan of Vermeulen also. Don't let him get to you. He likes saying shocking things that will never be tested.

Anyway back to Jarvis, I expect KJ to spearhead our attack and add some much needed pace after the last few years of Panyangara waddling in.
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Re: OK so what about Jarvis' return...?

Post by Googly »

Jarvis and Taylor must have negotiated themselves juicy 3 year deals at the very least.

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