How good do you think Zimbabwe will ever be at cricket?

[Conant]

Doesn't this batting line-up on the whole actually carry more potential than any other side of previous years?

I remember us opening with Gavin Rennie, Dion Ebrahim, Craig Wishart because we couldn't get a regular opener for Grant Flower. Now somebody we could have been comfortable batting at four (Masakadza) will have to open because the middle order is congested, and Ebrahim wouldn't make the squad now even though he's 29.

I remember us sending in Taibu at first fall in 2004 because we had no #3. Now if the selectors do their properly and get Sean Ervine back, I don't envisage him batting higher than five.

At its best didn't the decidedly medium pace Pommie perform ably for his country in Tests for at least three years, which if what we hear of the Meth, the Tusker will do better? Is Tinashe Panyangara not Test material, even if at first change?

Don't we have a world class spin attack.

Better still hasn't the recently concluded A team tour by New Zealand acted as a barometer of our first class structure?

I don't understand the pessimism. On a batting tack this team will wallop those dithering Caribbeans in Jamaica and Trinidad. All we need is two fast bowlers (maybe one), and one of them is on the mend in Harare

[Boundary]

Kudos Conant, well spoken. Generally as fans we will be pessimistic but our batting lineup needs to stay together for years to prove that they are solid. At one point or another somebody has stepped up to the plate against the world's attack, but we've never done it as a team, consistently. How many have we had two hundreds in the same innings? I don't think our lineup would struggle in England the way Bangladesh did this year, but they do well at home. So experience matters, it (and coaches) augment talent and we've got plenty of talent. Now, I don't rate South Africa's Tsotsobe but look at what international experience has done to him. That's what our players lack, playing against top international talent regularly.

Now, everything I've said above doesn't apply to our seam attack . We simply lack a lot of things in that area.

[wicor]

Look atn WI, they are not far off from us now, Bangladesh, NZ.

On a batting tack this team will wallop those dithering Caribbeans in Jamaica and Trinidad. A

WI would beat Zim in 3 days. I could see Gayle blasting a 90 ball 100 and Shiv not out 200. Kemar Roach would blast the batting line up out. Taylor or Masakadza might hit a fifty but Zim wouldn't get 250!!!

Doesn't this batting line-up on the whole actually carry more potential than any other side of previous years?
All we need is two fast bowlers (maybe one), and one of them is on the mend in Harare

Flowers, Goodwin, Campbell, Guy Whittal etc where miles ahead of Taylor and co. Taylor is capable of the occasional brilliant innings but has no consistency.

2 fast bowlers to be competitive you need a pool of 6-8 quality pace men in tests, Zim don't have one!!

As for Keegan Meth ye guys make him sound like Tendulkar and McGrath rolled into one! He can't evev get a game ahead of Dabegenwa so he can't be that hot.

Get real folks Zim are a glorified associate side. You beat Ireland 2-1 and would have lost if the umpire had given Rainsford run out when he should have in the first ODI. Test sides don't lose at home to Ireland!!!

[ZIMDOGGY]

Once Zimbabwe is on the Meth they will be worldbeaters.

I just don't understand why he's not been given a crack of the wip yet :/

Agree....Meth and crack just go together perfectly.

[ZIMDOGGY]

Doesn't this batting line-up on the whole actually carry more potential than any other side of previous years?

I remember us opening with Gavin Rennie, Dion Ebrahim, Craig Wishart because we couldn't get a regular opener for Grant Flower. Now somebody we could have been comfortable batting at four (Masakadza) will have to open because the middle order is congested, and Ebrahim wouldn't make the squad now even though he's 29.

I remember us sending in Taibu at first fall in 2004 because we had no #3. Now if the selectors do their properly and get Sean Ervine back, I don't envisage him batting higher than five.

At its best didn't the decidedly medium pace Pommie perform ably for his country in Tests for at least three years, which if what we hear of the Meth, the Tusker will do better? Is Tinashe Panyangara not Test material, even if at first change?

Don't we have a world class spin attack.

Better still hasn't the recently concluded A team tour by New Zealand acted as a barometer of our first class structure?

I don't understand the pessimism. On a batting tack this team will wallop those dithering Caribbeans in Jamaica and Trinidad. All we need is two fast bowlers (maybe one), and one of them is on the mend in Harare

what i believe is the zim side of today is more balanced in the middle.

theres no real superstars

even price wouldnt make many other national teams, taylors good but not quite there.


the sides of the past reaad like this:

ebrahim
gripper
flower 1
flower 2
wishart
bliggie
ffriend
ervine
streak
hondo
price


they had a few worlsd beaters like the flower and strak,
e
but then they had rubbish like ebrahim. who often would be pushed so far down the batting order even bliggy and friend were considered more valuable to the lineup.

rubbish like ebrahim and friend wouldnt cut it in todays team, that era ended symbolically with matsikenyeri getting flicked. but make no mistake,IT is a team without stars. Every zim team in the past had a few star batsmen and at least one bowler with streak.

if we had a heath streak in the current team and at least one of an andy,murray,houghton type.....

.....we would be a very competitive team.

[Conant]

Look atn WI, they are not far off from us now, Bangladesh, NZ.

On a batting tack this team will wallop those dithering Caribbeans in Jamaica and Trinidad. A

WI would beat Zim in 3 days. I could see Gayle blasting a 90 ball 100 and Shiv not out 200. Kemar Roach would blast the batting line up out. Taylor or Masakadza might hit a fifty but Zim wouldn't get 250!!!

Doesn't this batting line-up on the whole actually carry more potential than any other side of previous years?
All we need is two fast bowlers (maybe one), and one of them is on the mend in Harare

Flowers, Goodwin, Campbell, Guy Whittal etc where miles ahead of Taylor and co. Taylor is capable of the occasional brilliant innings but has no consistency.

As for Keegan Meth ye guys make him sound like Tendulkar and McGrath rolled into one! He can't evev get a game ahead of Dabegenwa so he can't be that hot.

Get real folks Zim are a glorified associate side. You beat Ireland 2-1 and would have lost if the umpire had given Rainsford run out when he should have in the first ODI. Test sides don't lose at home to Ireland!!!

Alastair Campbell had a test average of 27, Grant Flower 29. Murray Goodwin I think 35, but had a painstaking strike rate of 60 in ODIs. With due respect to all of the above none are better that Taylor, certainly not Grant Flower nor Alastair Campbell. Wicor I think you're quite loco.

Zim is not an associate side. I don't know where your anger about the forumers' enthusiasm comes from, unless you're a sour Bangladeshi, in which case you should be able to burst in a few months time

[eugene]

I agree with Zimdoggy that while overall we are a more balanced side we are lacking a few worldclass players that previous Zimbabwean sides had. Andy Flower was a once in a generation player and I doubt we have any batsmen who will come close to his achievements. Our current side with Andy Flower and Heath Streak on yesteryear added in would probably be the strongest we have had.

In defence of Alistair Campbell, Grant Flower, adn Murray Goodwin,a nd the others of that generation, they were playing against much better bowling attacks than our current side do. The standard of bowling has decreased in the last 5-10 years. Also, they regularly played the top sides in tests and ODIs whereas our current team generally play Bangladesh and Kenya. Also even when we do return to tests I doubt we will be touring Australia or Sri Lanka any time soon.

[ZIMDOGGY]

the sad thing is if we unearth a few diamonds in the rough they will be lost to england (or strongly, strongly tempted to go there) probably as a late teen-gary ballance style.


I think theres a danger zone/bell curve we have to be wary of.
The only way i can describe this is:

lets say you have a batsman.

generally a test batter will range between 20 and 60 as a average.

anything less than around 36 no one would probably be scouting you, there is better fish out there.

Anything higher than 50...well lets face it, you can have your cake AND eat it too (play for zim and score a ipl/first class contract elsewhere)



this leads to the 38-49 danger zone i speak of. Like Murray goodwin, neil johnson, hick etc

a player who averages 40 will know hes a very fine player, will have money shoved in his face to leave the country, will probably think hes 'above' zimbabwe and knows hes better than your average countryman.

The problem is these players do pop up. Theres more chance of this than an andy flower 53 average.


Will zim be content with hoping there batters are averaging early 30s?




This is deep stuff from the dogg.

[cricket_22001]

May I offer a few comments as a complete outsider (I'm an Aussie).
Mostly, I am appalled when I read the negativity about Zimbabwe's international return. You have been out of the real international arena for 5 years. What do you think will happen? Yes! You will cop your drubbings. But you did before 2005. What is important is that you become competitive, particularly at home.
But let me digress.
About a month ago the ICC made a huge announcement regarding the 2015 World Cup only having 10 teams. A few months ago Zimbabwe announced they will return to the international arena after the World Cup. Is this a coincidence? Zimbabwe knew of the ICC's plan & if they are to keep getting funding, get back in. And here is where you should be positive because it's better to be in rather than be an associate because the ICC have just about cut the balls of them.
Zimbabwe have moved to get the old guard back in coaching & admin. Also there has been overseas coaching & player recruitment. Now the influence of this takes time to have an effect. But at least these are steps in the right direction.
Also, cricket history is filled with stories of promising cricketers living a dream & playing for your country & then playing against heroes & legends from other countries. The promising cricketer gets to rub shoulders with a legend- maybe even talk to him after a days play or at a function. And then get at least one or more pieces of advice that can help him improve his game. Taibu can surely relate to this type of story. SO, if you are not in- & Zim is currently not in- this won't happen. Therefore, be positive.
A comment posted said the 80s Zimbabwe team should have been given test status. I agree. It was stronger than the 90s team. But the 90s team could still put up a scrap, so don't lose hope.
Zim should look to ambush either Bangla or WI first.
Bangla are so preoccupied with the World Cup hardly any of their players will play first class cricket. And player like Ashraful, Shakib, Rahim, Tamim & Mahmudullah are rarely playing the domestic scene anyway. Their fast bowlers, Rubel & Shaiful, have less experience than Manyumwa & Meth, let alone Mpofu & Rainsford. So an ambush at home should be the plan.
The Windies are a rabble.
Gayle & Bravo are selected now but have not signed contracts with the board, So they are free agents. This smells to me of one last world cup then 20/20 riches. Gayle is so full of bling, how long do you think he will last in a team where he is not captain? He doen't have a high regard for tests. He was pressured into the Australian tour last year as Cricket Australia was going to cancel his 20/20 contract with Western Australia. Not the best influence to have in a side. Plus, Chanderpaul is 37 next year. How long can he go on? Sarwan is on the outer although I expect him to return. He is the only Windies player who can bat like Chanderpaul. Barath has potential. Their fast bowlers have more injuries than they care to handle & Edwards & Taylor look primed to go Shane Bond way of 20/20. If these guys get into Roach's ear then his raw talent may go unfulfilled.
Invite them over & try for an ambush. What's there to lose?
Invite the Pakis over too because you won't be able to guess their team makeup. Some will be suspended, some failing dope tests, some out of favor & a new captain is assured. If any team is ripe for slaughter it's this mob. And they too are hungry for international exposure.
If you played Sri Lanka next year, you would get pasted. But I feel SL are digging a big hole for themselves. When Sanggakara, Jayawardene, Samaraweera & Dilshan (all 33 or more) retire they haven't quite produced the next big thing. Tharanga, Panaranavitarana, Warnapura, Silva, Kapugedera have been around for 5 years without cementing themselves. Mathews has potential.
Murali & Vaas have gone. Kulasekera, Herath, Thusara, Maharoof & Welegedera. All useful, but match winners? Randiv & Mendis still to be really tested. SL seem to play a hell of a lot on the sub continent so it would be a real test to play them in Zimbabwe. Maybe an ambush after they tour South Africa (heh, heh).
Zim recently played NZ 'A'. Look at the attack- Martin, Arnel, Franklin, Patel- all in India now. The only difference is Vettori (wish he was an Aussie- could solve our spin problem). Your 'A' team wasn't that badly performed against them. But McCullum, Ryder & Taylor may feast on your bowling. Still, NZ perform better in NZ than overseas.
Yes, Zimbabwe probably will be slaughtered by India, Australia, SA & England.
But Zimbabwe will be building up as a couple of others are in decline or further decline.
You must take positives from this & support them fully. Don't expect miracles immediately & who knows what the 6-10 year plan will reveal.
Thanks for the opportunity to post these thoughts.