Don’t let Zimbabwe slip down further, act now

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JHunter
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Re: Don’t let Zimbabwe slip down further, act now

Post by JHunter »

Googly wrote:Great reading, thanks JHunter! I had also heard that basketball was gaining in popularity at schoolboy level and the big athletic youngsters were being lured by the prospect of an NBA berth, any truth in that rumor?
Basketball was always popular at school. I think some time ago Garfield Sobers rubbished that idea by noting that football, athletics and basketball were always popular in the West Indies alongside cricket. Less youngsters may be interested in cricket at school nowadays but I've never heard of a school not being able to compete in any of the school competitions in any of the territories. As far as I know the schools are all still able to field cricket teams each season.

Where things have broken down somewhat (or rather not progressed I should say) is in the transitioning from school cricket. It has been noted that once youngsters leave high school that some of the good ones get lost to the system as they pursue higher education. That was one of the reasons a Combined Campuses and Colleges team was created for players in universities and colleges around the region. And the CCC team did fairly well in some seasons. The pity though is that for this season the CCC has been axed from the first-class competition and only retained for the List A competition. I hope that eventually that will be reversed or that perhaps one day in the not too distant future they can institute a second XI competition or U-23 competition which could see the CCC playing alongside second string territorial teams in at least 3-day matches (perhaps in a format with a 2 groups playing single round robin and the top teams in each group progressing to the final; and adding WI U-19 to make it eight teams in total).

The root problem though is just the attitude of the players. MANY people will say "the board this.." and "the board that.." but will ignore (either willfully or unknowingly) the examples out there which throw a major spanner in the theory that the board is the root cause of the problems:

1. the very same West Indies board is responsible for the West Indies women's team and that team has been performing well (under Merissa Aguilleira their one-day record has been 36 wins, 1 tie, 30 losses and 2 no results while their T20 record has been 36 wins, 2 ties, 27 losses and 2 no results) despite not having nearly as many resources as the men's team and despite being run by the very same board that is supposedly the root of the problem in WI cricket. And what is interesting to note is that only within the last few years could the WICB even afford to start offering central retainer contracts to the women's team. And yet we never see the kind of acrimony between the women's team and the board as we see between the men's team and the board.

2. WI players (men's) actually get paid more than some of the teams that regularly outrank them and outperform them. And this increased pay is buttressed by the fact that international players (those on the WI team itself) do not pay taxes on their salary as part of a regional agreement not to tax integration bodies such as CARICOM. They also get paid in US dollars rather than local currency; a luxury many in the region do not have.

3. Other teams have had pay disputes and pay issues without going to the extremes of the current generation of WI players. England I remember had a long running pay dispute between the players and the board but the players continued to act professionally and focused on their game and kept their individual performance separate from the pay issue. Sri Lanka too had an issue which lasted for about a year I think (the players didn't get paid for a year I believe while it was being disputed and sorted out) and yet Sri Lanka almost always performs well. This lack of professionalism by the WI players has nothing to do with a lack of national pride although that is what a lot of people tend to think and they tend to come to the conclusion that players would perform better for the respective countries instead of the WI team. The traditionally best performing T20 territorial team, Trinidad & Tobago, showed just how wrong that conclusion was when they had a major pay dispute ahead of one of their appearances at the Champions League T20 when the team threatened to go on strike and not appear at the CLT20 (sounds very much like the WI team doesn't it?) unless the issue was sorted out. It is due to a lack of pride, but rather a lack of civic pride in themselves as individuals who are supposed to be professional. Whether it was WI playing in India or T&T playing in India, Bravo would have been threatening to strike during the tour and would have lead the abandonment of that tour. That's just his personality at play, helped along apparently by some advice from Ramnarine. The same applies for many others of his crop of players.


Getting back to Zimbabwe though, I think Zimbabwe and West Indies are generally on the right track with double round robin first-class cricket among franchise teams. Where they both need to work on though is the pitches I think and expanding the academy system (players who went to the Sagicor High Performance Centre in the West Indies have often done VERY well in it and come out of it with noticeably improved performances). Right now both Zimbabwe and West Indies tend to see scores over 250 in only about a third of the innings in the first class competitions whereas in other countries such as England, New Zealand and Sri Lanka scores over 250 tend to occur in between 55-70+% of the innings. When we start to see scores over 250 forming a greater and greater portion of the first-class scores then we will know that Zimbabwe and West Indies are well on the road to recovery.

foreignfield
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Re: Don’t let Zimbabwe slip down further, act now

Post by foreignfield »

JHunter wrote:Where they both need to work on though is the pitches I think ... Right now both Zimbabwe and West Indies tend to see scores over 250 in only about a third of the innings in the first class competitions whereas in other countries such as England, New Zealand and Sri Lanka scores over 250 tend to occur in between 55-70+% of the innings. When we start to see scores over 250 forming a greater and greater portion of the first-class scores then we will know that Zimbabwe and West Indies are well on the road to recovery.
The quality of the pitches seems to be a big problem in the West Indies and obviously has been for a while. Rather ordinary spinners taking bagfuls of wickets being one area of concern (and not only for former fast-bowling greats turned commentators). I'm not so sure the same applies to Zim, though. From what one hears the pitches are generally "good for batting", the odd one may turn out slow and low, but it's definitely not impossible to score heavily in the Logan Cup. Whenever our top batsmen are around they seem to score runs for fun. What we are seeing is, in my opinion, rather a gap between the relative abilities of batsmen and bowlers below the national team level.

An area of concern would be the quality of pitches in club cricket (and maybe also in schools' cricket? -- Googly?)

Googly
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Re: Don’t let Zimbabwe slip down further, act now

Post by Googly »

Yes the franchise pitches are generally very good. Some time ago (a couple of years) a directive was issued to make the pitches more difficult and they appear to have forgotten to ever produce a really batter friendly track since then, but I like that. The good players make runs. Surprisingly nearly every Zim ground is lively in the mornings and then flattens out after lunch a bit.

As far as Harare club pitches go, I'm not too sure where they play their fixtures. I know Country Club is probably the best venue. It was at one point the best ground in the Country but the club is short of cash, despite Mr Campbell selling thousands of dollars' worth of water a day from there, and standards are slipping a bit.
Takashinga is a disaster, OH is a mess, especially the outfield. Alex is not too bad, neither is Sunrise and I can't think of another ground? OG's refuse to have anything to do with ZC and their ground is ok. I know they have played a couple of club games at Prince Edward School at some stage but standards have really slipped there now. As I said before there are 9 Harare clubs and only 3 or 4 have their own grounds.
There's a decent ground at Kadoma but no real club house to speak of and there must be a couple in Masvingo, a couple in Kwekwe and a couple in Bulawayo (Busters).
I'm sure someone else on this forum will have more info than I on this.

As far as High Schools go- Harare has St Johns (nice), Hellenic, St Georges (best school ground by far) Prince Edward and Eaglesvale. That's it in Harare I think?
Marondera has Peter House (beautiful ground)
Bulawayo has Falcon (beautiful) and CBC.
There's a couple of others that I may have forgotten about but it's a grim picture indeed.
We really don't have the infrastructure here and it's a miracle that we produce any decent cricketers at all. We literally have far less infrastructure and cricketers than one medium sized town in England yet we are capable of beating them on a good day!!

We have one indoor facility that was supposed to have been an academy but somehow is a private set up, despite having been mostly set up by Dominus money and since Doug Higgins left it is now seriously underutilized.

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eugene
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Re: Don’t let Zimbabwe slip down further, act now

Post by eugene »

What about that private ground that has floodlights?
Neil Johnson, Alistair Campbell, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), Grant Flower, Dave Houghton, Guy Whittall, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Ray Price, Eddo Brandes

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Re: Don’t let Zimbabwe slip down further, act now

Post by brmtaylor.com admin »

Lilfordia eugene? I think the Campbell family used to or still runs that school? Pretty amazing that a primary school is the only cricket ground in the country with floodlights. http://www.lilfordia.com

I've been meaning to ask Googly - he's mentioned a few times that some schools are considered "white schools" even though they mostly have black students. I'm curious how this distinction came about. Are there any government run schools still considered white schools? Or has white school just come to mean exclusive private school? Or are there exclusive private schools which are considered "black schools"? Do any white students attend black schools or government run schools?

Googly
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Re: Don’t let Zimbabwe slip down further, act now

Post by Googly »

Lilfordia has lighting of sorts, but they are in serious disrepair. Four low posts (maybe 5 m) with 4 small lights on each. The only way grade 7's can play with any degree of safety is because their eyesight is better than ours!! I told you before that the lighting for HSC is sitting in containers at the ground but there's no money to actually do it, and there's the small matter of the top sections being upside down!!!!!
Onto the school issue- I'm not aware of a single white pupil at any government school in the country. I don't think there's been one for years?
A school is considered a white school, to be discriminated against, if there is one or more white pupils enrolled in it.
There are no private schools that are wholly black. I stand corrected here, not sure what the status of Eaglesvale is, but hopefully they sink into the abyss. The black families that can afford Zim private school education send their kids to the "white" schools and then onto First World Universities. A token effort was made to keep Churchill going as a breeding ground for racially charged games but they have run out of steam.
Schools that are considered "white" have around 30-40% white pupils. They exist because white people keep them going. There are hand picked influential black people on the respective boards that keep the schools going because uneducated racist educationists in the Ministry spend their lives trying to make it difficult for these schools. By and large the rich black parents that can afford these schools make absolutely no contribution towards the upkeep, heritage or continuity of these schools. I apologise to the dozen or so black folk in the last 30 years that have made any meaningful contributions at their respective schools.
In the Zim dollar days I know of seriously rich black people that contributed not one red cent towards keeping the schools going. School fees were fixed and you could educate your child for the equivalent of $5 a term on occasion. Many political figures educated their kids for free as schools were too afraid to boot them out. I think this still happens.
Do I sound disillusioned and pissed off?

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maehara
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Re: Don’t let Zimbabwe slip down further, act now

Post by maehara »

Googly wrote:not sure what the status of Eaglesvale is, but hopefully they sink into the abyss.
This Eaglesvale old boy bristles at that. Although my time was nearly 30 years ago now, no doubt it's a rather different place these days...

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Re: Don’t let Zimbabwe slip down further, act now

Post by MidWest Rhinos »

maehara wrote:
Googly wrote:not sure what the status of Eaglesvale is, but hopefully they sink into the abyss.
This Eaglesvale old boy bristles at that. Although my time was nearly 30 years ago now, no doubt it's a rather different place these days...
Very, very, very different. One of our players went to Vale and went back a few years after he finished to say hello to his old teachers. To say he was apoplectic with rage at the state of it is to say that Kallis was just an ok all rounder.
Unoffically Mid West Rhinos

JHunter
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Re: Don’t let Zimbabwe slip down further, act now

Post by JHunter »

Googly wrote:Lilfordia has lighting of sorts, but they are in serious disrepair. Four low posts (maybe 5 m) with 4 small lights on each. The only way grade 7's can play with any degree of safety is because their eyesight is better than ours!! I told you before that the lighting for HSC is sitting in containers at the ground but there's no money to actually do it, and there's the small matter of the top sections being upside down!!!!!
Onto the school issue- I'm not aware of a single white pupil at any government school in the country. I don't think there's been one for years?
A school is considered a white school, to be discriminated against, if there is one or more white pupils enrolled in it.
There are no private schools that are wholly black. I stand corrected here, not sure what the status of Eaglesvale is, but hopefully they sink into the abyss. The black families that can afford Zim private school education send their kids to the "white" schools and then onto First World Universities. A token effort was made to keep Churchill going as a breeding ground for racially charged games but they have run out of steam.
Schools that are considered "white" have around 30-40% white pupils. They exist because white people keep them going. There are hand picked influential black people on the respective boards that keep the schools going because uneducated racist educationists in the Ministry spend their lives trying to make it difficult for these schools. By and large the rich black parents that can afford these schools make absolutely no contribution towards the upkeep, heritage or continuity of these schools. I apologise to the dozen or so black folk in the last 30 years that have made any meaningful contributions at their respective schools.
In the Zim dollar days I know of seriously rich black people that contributed not one red cent towards keeping the schools going. School fees were fixed and you could educate your child for the equivalent of $5 a term on occasion. Many political figures educated their kids for free as schools were too afraid to boot them out. I think this still happens.
Do I sound disillusioned and pissed off?
Yes you do, but it sounds like you have every right to be....

Real shame about the schools situation. I guess the problem identified in the other thread (about there being maybe 650-800 senior players in Zimbabwe at any given time) won't improve until the schools situation improves to allow the schools to eventual feed into the senior clubs....

But are there any simple steps that can be done to improve the school situation?

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