Sean Williams should be axed

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Jemisi
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Re: Sean Williams should be axed

Post by Jemisi » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:33 pm

Complain about Moor all you like.

Wanting the player who passes 50 more often than anyone else out of the team is nonsense.

It undermines the rest of your essays.

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watermelon
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Re: Sean Williams should be axed

Post by watermelon » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:44 pm

watermelon again,

Mr pariah is really quite wise as I see he is referencing what I originally mentioned in the beginning of this thread. Sean Williams plays well in losing causes when the match is already gone, but rarely leads us to a victory. He does not have big-match temperament, whereas Sibanda has led us to numerous victories, and that from the opening position! Sibanda is probably a better batsman and bowler than Williams, but unfortunately has fallen foul of Streak, Cremer, and co's political games - much like we are currently seeing with Chakabva.

-watermelon.
<3 Jemisi rules <3

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jaybro
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Re: Sean Williams should be axed

Post by jaybro » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:55 am

Here's the link to the top run scorer charts from last years Pro50 Championship .....

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... tournament

From the charts it's clear to see the National Team Players are a cut above the rest with Waller, Ervine, Mire & Williams in the Top 5, Brian Chari also had a great season sitting 2nd but has struggled in ODI matches plus it would be hard to drop Hami or Mire after the Sri Lanka Tour ....

Williams also ranked 7th in the bowling stocks with 7 wickets @ 25 .....

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... tournament

Hami's poor season coupled with his lean run last year showed that he was lucky to be on the tour, his experience and that century against Canada got him his ticket .....

The contenders to take Williams spot as a middle order / part time bowler didn't exactly set the world alight

Mutombodzi 154 runs @ 30 with One Fifty - 3 wickets @ 17

Maruma 146 runs @ 29 with One Fifty - 0 overs

Chigumbura 39 runs @ 9.75 - 0 overs

Sibanda 87 runs @ 43 only played 2 games - 1 over


Here's a link for the stats for the Pakistan A Tour .....

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... ype=series

Musakanda, Waller and Raza leading the charge with the bat and Raza again with the ball, Sibanda struggled with bat and bowled 3 overs @8.6 an over .....

Of the 16 players used that series only 3 players failed to bowl an over, Elton, Regis and Mutumbami. Now Regis and Mutumbami are keepers so fair enough but isn't Elton suppose to be an Allrounder ??

Waller 242 runs @ 48 with Three Fifties

Musakanda 216 runs @ 54 with Two Fifties

Raza 135 runs @ 45 with One Fifty - 6 wickets @ 26

Here's the link for the Afghanistan A Tour ....

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/zimbabwe- ... ype=season

Only Ryan Burl had a good series with the bat whilst Waller and Mutombodzi did ok although they only played the 2 games ......

Burl 266 runs @ 53 with One Century and Two fifties

Waller 93 runs @ 46 with One Fifty

Mutombodzi 74 runs @ 37 with One Fifty

Now here's a link for the the Top Run Scorers for all List A Games played in Zimbabwe last season ( Including ODI matches )

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/zimbabwe- ... ype=season

This shows why Waller is in the side topping the charts whilst other national team players like Ervine, Raza, Musakanda, Burl and Mire have done well. Chari again is 2nd on the list which is why he was given his chance in the Tri Series where he struggled.( Chari needs to make the step up from A Team Cricket to International cricket he clearly has the talent ).

Williams struggles against in the Tri Series and against Afghanistan are highlighted with the fact his average is down @ 29 but when looking at who could replace him only Burl sticks out but he doesn't bowl as much as Williams and was given a chance and failed.

Williams actually ranks 5th on the bowling charts and is the 2nd ranked spinner behind Cremer. The other players weren't even in the Top 50.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/zimbabwe- ... ype=season

Williams 237 runs @ 29 with One Century - 15 Wickets @ 21

Mutombodzi 228 runs @ 32 with Two Fifties

Burl 396 runs @ 37 with One Century and Two fifties

Chigumbura 154 runs @ 17 with One Fifty

Maruma 146 runs @ 24 with One Fifty

Sibanda 127 runs @ 21 no Fifties

So again I will ask if we were to replace Williams batting and bowling who do we replace him with?? Ok Tinotenda Mutombodzi's batting stats were similar but he didn't face the West Indies, Sri Lanka or Afghanistan he played only domestic and A team cricket plus he didn't bowl enough to prove he is a better bowler than Williams. Yes Burl killed it for the A Team but he struggled in ODI's so much like Chari he will have to work out how to make the step up to International cricket.

It's all well and good to say Williams has been average in ODI's last season but to find a replacement you have to look at the A Team performances and the Domestic Comp, once you compare it shows there is no clear replacement for Williams.

Also highlighted from these stats is that Waller has done a good job of going back to Domestic and A Team cricket and scored runs so despite his very 'average' average in ODI's he found himself in the side and since has scored runs and taken wickets.

Moor is obviously struggling but again do we have a clear replacement ?? Regis always does well in List A cricket but his ODI stats make Waller's look decent. We really need BRMT to return or Murray to progress as i don't have much faith in Gumbie or Saramba as they've done nothing in List A Cricket.

Looking at all the stats it shows the national team players are all close to the top so the selectors are doing a pretty decent job in all.
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

pariah
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Re: Sean Williams should be axed

Post by pariah » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:01 am

Jemisi wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:33 pm
Wanting the player who passes 50 more often than anyone else out of the team is nonsense.
You're peaking in riddles.

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

pariah
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Re: Sean Williams should be axed

Post by pariah » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:55 am

Jaybro you're responding to facts that were never challenged by anyone.

In your response you're using reasoning that doesn't work anywhere else.

I'll illustrate. No one has ever doubted that Stiaan van Zyl, Vilas, Cook, Kuhn and Theunis de Bruyn have done well in domestic cricket, and backed it up for the A side. What counts is they failed at international level and at some point needed to be dropped.

Again consider this quote from Faf
"The change with Quinton going in at four was to transfer pressure back on the England team and he is the one guy who can do that. He did that in the second Test with match-changing innings on a greentop but from a consistency point of view your number four needs to play the way the team needs him to play and Quinton plays the way Quinton need to play. In conditions like this, with the ball moving around, I think it's better for Quinton to come in at six or seven like your Bairstow, Stokes and Ali.

"Temba is probably technically our best player along with Hashim and myself. I love what I see in Temba's character and he's going to be an important leader for us in the team," he added. "I'm a big believer that, if you see that in somebody you give them responsibility to bring the best out in them. When he batted at four he was our best player in really challenging conditions and that showed me that he has the capability of being South Africa's number four for a long time."
I've seen enough of Moor and Burl to tell you that they've got nothing on Musakanda any day. Perhaps like QdK they struggle technically and play according to their instincts not instruction, and that's why they'v ebeen selected lower. Because they have failed there, then they must be dropped. Period.

Likewise, Chari (just like Vusi Sibanda) has often shown that he likes to score briskly and take the game to the bowlers, and sometimes not able to curb a certain short or pace themselves. So instead of forcing them to open, they are batted lower.

Plenty argument were made not to affect SvZ and TdB by batting them higher but bat them in the middle where they are comfortable. But they have failed everywhere, so what must be done? Don't select Phehlukwayo, Bavuma or Musakanda because they average 15 runs less in domestic cricket and for the A team? Maintian those players there and don't drop them no matter what just like what happened with Raza? :?

Your reasoning is flawed. But it had to be because you didn't want to confront the internaional performances and the story the stats tell. Ngarava flopped against NED and SCO, so was rightly not used for SL, but why were Burl and Moor? If Mire had similarly flopped against them would you have been happy to see him open against SL? How can Burl and Williams fail to trouble SCO and NED with the ball, but you still expect them to trouble SL? We have to face facts. If a Team wins a Tri-Series in which Williams plays all 5 matches, but scores just 129 runs(thanks largely to one innings) at 26 avg, then concedes 218 runs at an economy of 6.22 - for just 3 wickets at 73, surely you can't call that player an allrounder, but have to insist he bats higher and scores some runs or be dropped for failing to score runs. That career 50+ average and 60+ strike rate is not improving so that's not a bowler, not when Chisoro averages 21 with the bat and 26 with the ball. It's almost as if people are saying nothing must be done to Williams for the benefit of the team - not dropped, not adapted, even though he has NEVER EVER been a match-winner for the side at any point in his career. Sometime ago Faf realised his weaknesses witht he ball and he focused on his batting, Chigumbura did the same thing, same with Steve Smith, some suggest the same for Maxwell. Later JP was not given a chance to choose, simply made to bat at 4 and dropped for failing there. Tough love is necessary sometimes! Great!If Waller, like Raza, was dropped when he should have been dropped, then there wouldn't be any danger of Williams being axed, so what is the solution - continue a bowler short with 3 non-batsmen?

None of this is meant to discriminate against a particular player or particular set of players. The bottom line is this is a national side and there's no room to carry players until the next contract negotiations so they can get retained for having performed in just one two games or one series out of five series!!!

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

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jaybro
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Re: Sean Williams should be axed

Post by jaybro » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:03 pm

You can write a thousand words but still some how avoid the actual question, you're special you should be a dodgy politician :D

Williams poor run in ODI's was highlighted in my post once again you fail to read what people post, I've told you numerous times this is an issue for you.

We're not talking about South Africa so I don't why you bring them into the conversation i guess it's to deflect??

It is common practice when looking for a replacement player to look into A Team & Domestic performances how else can you find a replacement ??

The question still stands Who Do You Replace Williams With That Has Scored More Runs And Taken More Wickets??

( I put the question in Bold because you seem to like it ) :D
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

Jemisi
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Re: Sean Williams should be axed

Post by Jemisi » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:06 am

pariah wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:01 am
Jemisi wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:33 pm
Wanting the player who passes 50 more often than anyone else out of the team is nonsense.
You're peaking in riddles.
Riddles? Williams passes 50 more frequently than the rest. Removing him would not strengthen the batting.

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jaybro
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Re: Sean Williams should be axed

Post by jaybro » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:50 am

According to the latest ICC rankings Sean Williams is the 3rd best Zimbabwean Batsman, 4th best bowler and was ranked just outside the top 10 of allrounders @ 11 as recently as June ......

http://www.espncricinfo.com/rankings/co ... 11270.html
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

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