Preferred Zimbabwe Cricket - Horrendous Zimbabwe

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pariah
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Preferred Zimbabwe Cricket - Horrendous Zimbabwe

Post by pariah »

No more Bvute, Chingoka, Mukondiwa and Mangongo. The ICC and the old order of Zimbabwe Cricket Union now have their man from the ICC. Still, with that combination of Administrators, Head Coach and Players, the rot has well and truly set in.

The severity of the gangrene is such that amputation is inevitable. When (not if) relegation and significant loss of funds finally take place, a finger cannot and will not be pointed at those “corrupt and incompetent” officials without three pointed back at the masterminds.

This overseas trip against associates was meant to collect easy wins and build confidence. To once again remind the cricket world that Zimbabwe Cricket and its team are better than the Associates. They picked all the "best" available players. Now, with the Scots’ tails up this threatens to backfire badly. High profile embarrassment under Dav Whatmore’s watch initially, likewise presently with the baton passed on to Heath Streak.

For a long time, many here posted and called for their preferred XIs. For quite some time now they have been getting their wish. Not 100% perfect, but the side has by and large resembled their favourites for a long time now. They even got a coach they prefer. Salaries are being paid, and those players are actually being overpaid compared to their “peers” from other better performing countries. Yet lately, Zimbabwe has sunk to depths it has never imagined before.

A Zimbabwean team of old quotas would never have lost to Scotland. This is what happens when Zimbabwe Cricket silently enforces reverse quotas. This is what happens when the new guard decide that the likes of Elton Chigumbura, Vusi Sibanda, Chamu Chibhabha, Tinashe Panyangara, Regis Chakabva, Richmond Mutumbami and are not good enough. Nothing prevents all the other Full Members from taking unanimous decision to simply relegate Zimbabwe now – and in this context, the likes of Tristan Holme and Liam Brickhill will have egg in their faces.

Players like Dion Ebrahim, Mluleki Nkala, Elton Chigumbura, Vusi Sibanda, Stuart Matsikenyeri, Forster Mutizwa etc – much younger at the time - used to compete home and away against A sides from New Zealand, South Africa, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh proper – all of whom are/were many times stronger than this Scotland side. They never used to get embarrassed like this. The “future” in Burl and Moor can’t even buy a run against these Associates, never mind India D. The punted players among them Nathan Waller, were abject failures overseas in club cricket at those very Associate countries. Well, Zimbabwe is over there right now, and he would neither pose a threat nor offer improvement whatsoever.

Interim coach Makhaya Ntini was routinely ridiculed. Has Heath Streak with so many stints in England over several years, as count player, national player and player-coach done any better? How on earth do you ignore Panyangara for such bowling conditions?! Why or why was Mangongo deemed unsuitable? Butcher, Waller, Whatmore, Heath Streak – the list can get longer but none of those names are evidence of any answer to that question.

One of the great mysteries, which no one here pays attention to is the strangely persistent absence of white players in the opening partnership of Zimbabwe’s lineup. Craig Ervine, Sean Williams, Malcolm Waller, PJ Moor and Ryan Burl. 5 white batsmen (and a Pakistani), but NONE of them face a new ball. What witchcraft is this? But Mire must open, like a long list of other African batsmen for a long time in Zimbabwe now. That’s like Proteas making Dwaine Pretorius open ahead of Duminy and Farhaan! If Brendan Taylor were to return for tomorrow’s game, Raza who has been horrible with the bat, would most likely be dropped, and guess where he would bat?

But that’s not the only mystery bedevilling Zimbabwe Cricket. The other primary one is - when will ZCF fans finally do some introspection and sound reflection with regards to Zimbabwe Cricket?

Rethink needed: Ervine, Williams, Vusi(c), Chamu, Hami, Elton, Regis(wk), Chisoro, Madziva, Panyangara, Chatara

NB: Like the look of the place. I see maehara made some renovations. Nice!

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Re: Preferred Zimbabwe Cricket - Horrendous Zimbabwe

Post by brmtaylor.com admin »

Welcome back hhm. What you've said is true; the honest truth is that the playing group now is so poor that it doesn't matter who you pick, who the coach is or even who the admin is. Besides a small handful of credentialed players the quality is just not there any more.

The Rinke/Matsikenyeri/Nkala teams of 2006-07 would have thumped Scotland.

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Re: Preferred Zimbabwe Cricket - Horrendous Zimbabwe

Post by Googly »

Well hopefully they will follow hhm's advice. They should have followed hhm's line of thinking to the T years ago, we wouldn't be going through this anguish. Repeat T20's against Kenya and Namibia with the odd win thrown in would have been a better option.

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Re: Preferred Zimbabwe Cricket - Horrendous Zimbabwe

Post by eugene »

Glad to have you back hhm! You are of course overlooking how we have come to this disastrous point. Bvute, Chingoka, etc destroyed cricket long ago. Many of the black players you have highlighted were cast aside by ZC admin also. Team selection is largely a moot point now as there are only about 11 serious players left in the country.
Neil Johnson, Alistair Campbell, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), Grant Flower, Dave Houghton, Guy Whittall, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Ray Price, Eddo Brandes

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Re: Preferred Zimbabwe Cricket - Horrendous Zimbabwe

Post by Jemisi »

G'Day Hhm.

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The Robot
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Re: Preferred Zimbabwe Cricket - Horrendous Zimbabwe

Post by The Robot »

New Management are 100% right in seeing no more future with players like Elton Chigumbura, Vusi Sibanda, Chamu Chibhabha,
Tinashe Panyangara, Regis Chakabva, Richmond
Mutumbami and are not good enough.

Chigumbura last time looked effective was back in 2015, when he smashed ton against Pakistan. He has been out form for last 3 years and should feel lucky that selectors are still prefering him to be among the 15 members in the team. A senior player with an experience of more then 200 matches in one day with allround ability have done nothing to get selected in playing XI. Probably the weakest allrounder in Zimbabwe Cricket History wehere talents like Curran, Blignaut, Jhonson, Whitall, Friend, Strang came from.

Vusi Sibanda, is another failure right from 2014. Scoring 20s & 30s are not enough to make into the team after playing 100 matches.

Chamu Chibhabha, another failure, performs against weak opposition and domestic games, but has been a seasonal failure at international stage. Its difficult to believe a top order batsman with more then 100 matches, still to score an odi ton.

Panyangara has become old, was once considered best in the country for his brisk pace. Fitness Issues has made him from lethal to weak.

Chakabva, is another average player, plays much slow in shorter format, his format is test not odis.

Mutumbami, is probably the club standard player in Zimbabwe Set up. Bats like tailender being an wicket keeper, like old days. Wicket Keeper needs to bat well now days, and he has got many chances but failed to impress.


Elton Chigumbura, Vusi Sibanda, Chamu Chibhabha,
Tinashe Panyangara, Regis Chakabva, Richmond
Mutumbami played enough at the time of wicked Mangongo and were part of every games despite failures due politics. New Management under Taibu is doing well in kicking them out and giving time to the youths.




( In 2016 Zimbabwe Cricket meant services from Craig Ervine & Sean Williams with the bat & Cremer with the ball only. Masakadza & Raza was poor in their performances)


( Players like Moor, Burl, Musakanda, Ngarava are new at the current set up and deserve more matches before declaring them as failures )




Time to look for players like Snyder, Bruce, Shumba, Madhevere, Liam Rochi, Trent Jayden, Ives, Lake, Mazhawidza then going back and bringing those failures.
Robo to rule :oops:

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watermelon
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Re: Preferred Zimbabwe Cricket - Horrendous Zimbabwe

Post by watermelon »

pariah wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:37 pm
No more Bvute, Chingoka, Mukondiwa and Mangongo. The ICC and the old order of Zimbabwe Cricket Union now have their man from the ICC. Still, with that combination of Administrators, Head Coach and Players, the rot has well and truly set in.

The severity of the gangrene is such that amputation is inevitable. When (not if) relegation and significant loss of funds finally take place, a finger cannot and will not be pointed at those “corrupt and incompetent” officials without three pointed back at the masterminds.

This overseas trip against associates was meant to collect easy wins and build confidence. To once again remind the cricket world that Zimbabwe Cricket and its team are better than the Associates. They picked all the "best" available players. Now, with the Scots’ tails up this threatens to backfire badly. High profile embarrassment under Dav Whatmore’s watch initially, likewise presently with the baton passed on to Heath Streak.

For a long time, many here posted and called for their preferred XIs. For quite some time now they have been getting their wish. Not 100% perfect, but the side has by and large resembled their favourites for a long time now. They even got a coach they prefer. Salaries are being paid, and those players are actually being overpaid compared to their “peers” from other better performing countries. Yet lately, Zimbabwe has sunk to depths it has never imagined before.

A Zimbabwean team of old quotas would never have lost to Scotland. This is what happens when Zimbabwe Cricket silently enforces reverse quotas. This is what happens when the new guard decide that the likes of Elton Chigumbura, Vusi Sibanda, Chamu Chibhabha, Tinashe Panyangara, Regis Chakabva, Richmond Mutumbami and are not good enough. Nothing prevents all the other Full Members from taking unanimous decision to simply relegate Zimbabwe now – and in this context, the likes of Tristan Holme and Liam Brickhill will have egg in their faces.

Players like Dion Ebrahim, Mluleki Nkala, Elton Chigumbura, Vusi Sibanda, Stuart Matsikenyeri, Forster Mutizwa etc – much younger at the time - used to compete home and away against A sides from New Zealand, South Africa, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh proper – all of whom are/were many times stronger than this Scotland side. They never used to get embarrassed like this. The “future” in Burl and Moor can’t even buy a run against these Associates, never mind India D. The punted players among them Nathan Waller, were abject failures overseas in club cricket at those very Associate countries. Well, Zimbabwe is over there right now, and he would neither pose a threat nor offer improvement whatsoever.

Interim coach Makhaya Ntini was routinely ridiculed. Has Heath Streak with so many stints in England over several years, as count player, national player and player-coach done any better? How on earth do you ignore Panyangara for such bowling conditions?! Why or why was Mangongo deemed unsuitable? Butcher, Waller, Whatmore, Heath Streak – the list can get longer but none of those names are evidence of any answer to that question.

One of the great mysteries, which no one here pays attention to is the strangely persistent absence of white players in the opening partnership of Zimbabwe’s lineup. Craig Ervine, Sean Williams, Malcolm Waller, PJ Moor and Ryan Burl. 5 white batsmen (and a Pakistani), but NONE of them face a new ball. What witchcraft is this? But Mire must open, like a long list of other African batsmen for a long time in Zimbabwe now. That’s like Proteas making Dwaine Pretorius open ahead of Duminy and Farhaan! If Brendan Taylor were to return for tomorrow’s game, Raza who has been horrible with the bat, would most likely be dropped, and guess where he would bat?

But that’s not the only mystery bedevilling Zimbabwe Cricket. The other primary one is - when will ZCF fans finally do some introspection and sound reflection with regards to Zimbabwe Cricket?

Rethink needed: Ervine, Williams, Vusi(c), Chamu, Hami, Elton, Regis(wk), Chisoro, Madziva, Panyangara, Chatara

NB: Like the look of the place. I see maehara made some renovations. Nice!
Watermelon here, you must be the hhm many forumers have compared me to? I fail to see the comparison to be honest if the above post is an accurate portrayal of your work. Mostly incoherent nonsense - you are obviously far less knowledgeable about the game of cricket than I, much like everyone else on this forum. Thank goodness I have Taibu's number and chat to him regularly and not you.

-watermelon.
<3 Jemisi rules <3

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Re: Preferred Zimbabwe Cricket - Horrendous Zimbabwe

Post by jaybro »

Watermelon v Hhm !!!!! Grab your popcorn people ......
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Re: Preferred Zimbabwe Cricket - Horrendous Zimbabwe

Post by tawac »

Its funny how many forumers have Preferred 11s here and have been calling for the inclusion of certain players in the team yet the results dont seem to change. Talk of qoutas and unfair selection. And those same people are quick to point figures elsewhere to ills of old and what naught. Cremer's leadership has to be questioned in leading Zimbabwe to one horrendous performance after another. That said you can only work with whats put in front you. What good can come from a convener of selector who hardly gets to see the players he is supposed to select actually play. Its one thing packing a team with 11 of your "best" but its quite another as to the roles they are supposed to play. Zimbabwe's tactics went horribly wrong the other day and simply wont work. This idea of always chopping and changing yet we had games against Namibia and Canada to work on a settled 11.
CHRISTOPHER MPOFU: 'The problem was fear of failure. I used to think that when I played, if I didn't do well in one game, I would lose my place for the next one but now I've let go of that'

pariah
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Re: Preferred Zimbabwe Cricket - Horrendous Zimbabwe

Post by pariah »

Think that was an early morning for me Jemisi. Thanks for the greetings and welcome messages. So before Irish lightning strikes…

Not sure if that’s tongue-in-cheek BRM, but in all seriousness the team has really regressed badly. The period under which the supposed improvements have taken place have actually had Zimbabwe resemble some of its worst, most darkest days in cricket. It has revisited its lowliest of low periods. And yes never mind Duffin, Matsi and Nkala; the likes of Rinke, Maregwede, Garwe, Dabengwa, Greg Strydom and Mahwire would have been thumping this Scotland side!

Clearly deficiencies abound both on and off the pitch. I seriously don't see the logic in picking and then including in the XI Malcolm Waller at #7 and PJ Moor at number 8 - that against a middling Associate too. How can one honestly accept and defend that??? Say what you want about Mangongo but he would never have been that stupid, same applies to Elton/Utseya if they were captains. These are very disturbing symptoms of tactical and technical poverty in the setup.

This business of using Raza and Williams as frontline spinners must come to an end. Next they will add Malcolm too. There are a number of young or experienced frontline spinners in Zimbabwe who can be used – e.g. Wellington and Chisoro. Chisoro has opened the bowling for Zimbabwe with accomplishment a number of times. Both he and Wellington have got proper Averages and Strike Rates. Raza and Williams must be picked and dropped on the basis of their performance as batsmen. They have horrible Averages and Strike Rates. Along the way the plot has been lost. Let Zimbabwe this in Sri Lanka, they will be embarrassed. Cremer has never been good against decent batsmen, and he never takes the new ball. So once again he’ll be attacked and end up never finishing his quota throughout the ODIs in Sri Lanka.

At the end of the day this is the personnel people have been crying for BRM, so we can’t turn around and say it doesn’t matter who we pick. If that’s the case then why are Vusi and Elton overlooked? Vusi was dropped without explanation after a decent knock, and I don’t think any batsman has a much better record that Elton in the past couple of years.

Yes Eugene there are historical contributing factors, but none of them can every justify redeploying PJ Moor to bat at #8 simply because he’s not good enough up the order, and can’t displace the middle order (Mutumbami was entirely dropped for that!). Neither can those justify making Mire open when Craig Ervine, Raza and Williams are there? If you would never bat Tino Mawoyo at number 6, why bat Burl there? Neville Madziva never put his foot wrong, and like Wellington and Chisoro he has a fantastic record. Mangongo gave him his debut and that boy excelled. There’s no reason to turn to Ngarava yet.

I note your points Robot, and if you must know I have been following Zimbabwe cricket. Your youngsters lost to Canada! The point remains, Zimbabwe wasn’t hitting rock-bottom when these players you discard were still in the frame. Even with a paunch, Panyangara would’ve ripped through this Scotland top order in those conditions considering how Sole and Davey dominated Zim’s top international batsmen. The youngsters have come in, but flopped. Ryan Murray was clueless against Afghanistan’s 3rd string side, not even fit to be their A team. PJ Moor was shocking against the same side, and he has a poor record and technique compared to Musakanda who is left out. Likewise, Musakanda has been better than Burl but he doesn’t get the nod. Why? If it’s a gloves argument, Mutumbami – still young - is a better keeper and batsman than Moor in ODIs. Vusi and Elton are still needed.

Assuming I understand him correcty, tawac underlines what I meant:
tawac wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:22 am
Its funny how many forumers have Preferred 11s here and have been calling for the inclusion of certain players in the team yet the results dont seem to change. Talk of qoutas and unfair selection. And those same people are quick to point figures elsewhere to ills of old and what naught.
Let's be realistic, if Zimbabwe are losing to Scotland, then if Jarvis and Taylor even remotely wanted to come back then they won't. Same applies to any youngster who has Sam Curran potential. So the collective efforts of players who are favourites of a lot of people here, have actually killed the hopes of some of the youngsters. I can promise and assure you of one thing, no up and coming youngster will ever say watching Chigumbura destroyed his hopes. Today this forum applauds a Malcolm Waller 50 against Scotland. I used rubbish at hundreds Matsi and Barney Rogers used to score against Bangladesh and Kenya!

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