8+3 combination is not ideal for winning test match

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Black Mamba
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8+3 combination is not ideal for winning test match

Post by Black Mamba »

Zimbabwe had a great success in Sri Lanka as they registered 3-2 series win in 5 match odi series. Since, the recent european tour, the team management has opted for playing 8 batsman, 3 bowlers and it worked a great success in Sri Lanka.

In odis, batsman has limited time and had to score runs by any means, as a result they target part time bowlers. Hence, part time bowlers can give some wickets owing to risk taken by batsman, or slow down the run rate by bowling according to field set up.Thus, (8+3) strategy might work in shorter formats.

In test, batsman has more time. A team needs bowlers of skills who can deceive the batsman. Batsman never give their wickets, its the bowlers who have to give tough time to batsman and take their wickets. The role of part timers in test cricket is just to bowl few overs and provide rest to their main strike bowlers.Asking them to take wickets, is too harsh.

Zimbabwe started this test with a negetive approach of drawing the test. 8 batsman, 3 bowler is a perfect combination for drawing a test match, but with some surprise part time bowlers of Zimbabwe got some success in the first innings that made them think for a win after a massive lead in second innings.

Out of the 3 speacialist bowler Zimbabwe played, Cremer was stand out performer, Williams & Raza 's bowling skills appeared to be pure part time options.Though, pitch did'nt offer much to the pacers, Sri Lankan pacers looked to provide some threats with lbw shouts, reverse swing as they had the pace.Zimbabwe Pacers on the other hand, did'nt looked so much deceptive as a result they were not given to bowl much in the second innings, they did'nt have the pace to trouble the batsman in a flat track.

Zimbabwe in this test should have picked Chisoro, who can stick around with the bat and is a good spinner getting wickets in a seaming tracks. Flat, cracked open pitch of day 5, test would have given him much help. Carl Mumba is another guy, who should have been picked instead of Chris Mpofu, for his extra yard of pace, he might have brought reverse swing into play.Winning situation in a test match never comes frequently for lower ranked teams like Zimbabwe, hence Zimbabwe needs to think positive in playing test cricket.

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jaybro
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Re: 8+3 combination is not ideal for winning test match

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On some pitches the 8-3 has some merit due to our all rounders/ part timers. When you think about it Tiripano & Mpofu barely bowled, imagine if we had Chatara & Mumba or even Chatara & Chisoro things might have been different .....
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Black Mamba
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Re: 8+3 combination is not ideal for winning test match

Post by Black Mamba »

jaybro wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:03 am
On some pitches the 8-3 has some merit due to our all rounders/ part timers. When you think about it Tiripano & Mpofu barely bowled, imagine if we had Chatara & Mumba or even Chatara & Chisoro things might have been different .....
They are part timers. If they would have been allrounders, it would have been time for celebrating the victory

TapsC
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Re: 8+3 combination is not ideal for winning test match

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To me it's only going to work on 2 conditions. The number 8 batsmen also has to be a all rounder of some sort.. it didn't make sense for Waller not to bowl in such conditions. Secondly the 3 bowlers you pick have to be attacking options. Which is where unfortunately for me Tiripano doesn't get the nod despite his valiant efforts. Pick Cremer Chisoro Chatara Mumba M'shangwe and hopefully Vitori one day and that's is ok.. we lost that test because we only need had 1 attacking option. We all thought Sri Lanka would score 500+ in their first inninngs so we shouldnt be shocked they got it right in the second.

The problem for me is balance in the test 8-3 combination. As crazy as it sounds I think Mire over Musakanda would have been the better option because I think that would have allowed them to pick M'shangwe over Mpofu. Or welly if he was fit. Going in with 1 seamer terrified them. The odi 8-3 was more balanced. Musakanda in the end only contributed once with that run out.

For me against the West Indies Mire should play. He is more comfortable against pace which is what they will mainly have and he can play an attacking Warner or De cock kind of innings. Even the way Dickwella played I think Mire can do the same. Test bowling and ODI bowling are different. Jarvis has an economy rate of 6 in ODIs but his test performances are incredible. Not saying Mire will get there but he can bowl bouncers at about 137kph like Mpofu did yesterday. Mire looks like a proper athlete who could bowl an explosive spell full of bouncers on the right wicket and I just think with some more coaching on a few technical areas on both his batting and bowling he could be the missing link in terms of balance in our team.

I wouldnt make him open though. I would bat him at 8 with Raza moving from 6 to opening with Mawoyo and PJ and Waller moving up one each in test matches so that he can provide a late counter punch when the bowlers are tired

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Re: 8+3 combination is not ideal for winning test match

Post by jaybro »

Black Mamba wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:15 am
jaybro wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:03 am
On some pitches the 8-3 has some merit due to our all rounders/ part timers. When you think about it Tiripano & Mpofu barely bowled, imagine if we had Chatara & Mumba or even Chatara & Chisoro things might have been different .....
They are part timers. If they would have been allrounders, it would have been time for celebrating the victory
Well the actual term all rounder is a player who's batting average is higher than their bowling so according to that yes you are correct ......
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Re: 8+3 combination is not ideal for winning test match

Post by jaybro »

TapsC wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:48 am
To me it's only going to work on 2 conditions. The number 8 batsmen also has to be a all rounder of some sort.. it didn't make sense for Waller not to bowl in such conditions. Secondly the 3 bowlers you pick have to be attacking options. Which is where unfortunately for me Tiripano doesn't get the nod despite his valiant efforts. Pick Cremer Chisoro Chatara Mumba M'shangwe and hopefully Vitori one day and that's is ok.. we lost that test because we only need had 1 attacking option. We all thought Sri Lanka would score 500+ in their first inninngs so we shouldnt be shocked they got it right in the second.

The problem for me is balance in the test 8-3 combination. As crazy as it sounds I think Mire over Musakanda would have been the better option because I think that would have allowed them to pick M'shangwe over Mpofu. Or welly if he was fit. Going in with 1 seamer terrified them. The odi 8-3 was more balanced. Musakanda in the end only contributed once with that run out.

For me against the West Indies Mire should play. He is more comfortable against pace which is what they will mainly have and he can play an attacking Warner or De cock kind of innings. Even the way Dickwella played I think Mire can do the same. Test bowling and ODI bowling are different. Jarvis has an economy rate of 6 in ODIs but his test performances are incredible. Not saying Mire will get there but he can bowl bouncers at about 137kph like Mpofu did yesterday. Mire looks like a proper athlete who could bowl an explosive spell full of bouncers on the right wicket and I just think with some more coaching on a few technical areas on both his batting and bowling he could be the missing link in terms of balance in our team.

I wouldnt make him open though. I would bat him at 8 with Raza moving from 6 to opening with Mawoyo and PJ and Waller moving up one each in test matches so that he can provide a late counter punch when the bowlers are tired
I agree with a lot of what you said mate and Mire is an interesting one for a few reasons firstly being does he want to play test matches?? From my understanding he was going to play limited overs series when he was available or has this changed ?

Having not played any long form cricket for years it's hard to know how effective his bowling or batting would be, but if he was keen to play then his talents couldn't be ignored. I think the fact it was a one off match Zimbabwe tried some odd things like Regis opening & keeping plus the fact it was played in Sri Lanka they decided to stack the team with middle order players. We might find that our next test in Harare they might revert to more natural openers like Tino, Chari or Chamu. I've said it many times I actually think Hami should open in all formats for Zimbabwe, he's done very well in the limited overs formats & although he has a modest test record opening I feel he's the best guy for the job ......
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grant
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Re: 8+3 combination is not ideal for winning test match

Post by grant »

jaybro wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:49 am
I've said it many times I actually think Hami should open in all formats for Zimbabwe, he's done very well in the limited overs formats & although he has a modest test record opening I feel he's the best guy for the job ......
+1

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Re: 8+3 combination is not ideal for winning test match

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Zimbabwe is crying out for a seam bowling all rounder to step up and demand selection. He ideally would bat 8 & bowl 1st change so to give us the extra bowler whilst keeping the long batting lineup.

The applicants are

- Nathan Waller - Seems to be the closest to selection being involved in the last 4 series. Not sure if he's bowling is good enough for international cricket and seems to be more of a hitter than a batsman.

- Neville Madziva - More of a bowler than a batsman but has shown his worth with the bat. Seems more suited to Limited overs cricket.

- Luke Jongwe - At one point seemed the saving grace for Zimbabwe cricket the new hope, how times have changed. Not selected since 2015 he seems not to be in the picture at the moment but of all the candidates I think he is the best if he can get his game together. Seems to have attitude problems.

- Solomon Mire - Killing it opening the batting in ODI's but not sure on his availability for tests. Also his bowling although decent pace hasn't been threatening. Needs some Logan Cup cricket or A Team games to see what he's got.

- Elton Chigumbura - Former captain seemingly on the scrap heap not for the first time, will he have another international resurrection? Seems like he doesn't like bowling and is getting older but still can bowl well on his day. Not sure if he's got it in him anymore

- James Bruce - The interesting one on the list for many reasons. Firstly is he serious about cricket? Has only
Played a handful of matches but has shown signs with bat & ball but really needs to establish himself for the Rhinos and be 'all in' for his career
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Re: 8+3 combination is not ideal for winning test match

Post by pariah »

This thread is lovely for three reasons:
1. The attempts to defend the indefensible
2. Avoiding the elephant(s) in the room
3. The litany of contradictions that will abound as a result

I would love a ZImbabwean T20 tomorrow because of people think Tests is what pokes holes in this, T20s actually make it more glaring. Lots of round pegs in square holes...

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Black Mamba
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Re: 8+3 combination is not ideal for winning test match

Post by Black Mamba »

jaybro wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:31 am
Zimbabwe is crying out for a seam bowling all rounder to step up and demand selection. He ideally would bat 8 & bowl 1st change so to give us the extra bowler whilst keeping the long batting lineup.

The applicants are

- Nathan Waller - Seems to be the closest to selection being involved in the last 4 series. Not sure if he's bowling is good enough for international cricket and seems to be more of a hitter than a batsman.

- Neville Madziva - More of a bowler than a batsman but has shown his worth with the bat. Seems more suited to Limited overs cricket.

- Luke Jongwe - At one point seemed the saving grace for Zimbabwe cricket the new hope, how times have changed. Not selected since 2015 he seems not to be in the picture at the moment but of all the candidates I think he is the best if he can get his game together. Seems to have attitude problems.

- Solomon Mire - Killing it opening the batting in ODI's but not sure on his availability for tests. Also his bowling although decent pace hasn't been threatening. Needs some Logan Cup cricket or A Team games to see what he's got.

- Elton Chigumbura - Former captain seemingly on the scrap heap not for the first time, will he have another international resurrection? Seems like he doesn't like bowling and is getting older but still can bowl well on his day. Not sure if he's got it in him anymore

- James Bruce - The interesting one on the list for many reasons. Firstly is he serious about cricket? Has only
Played a handful of matches but has shown signs with bat & ball but really needs to establish himself for the Rhinos and be 'all in' for his career
Chigumbura is finished. He deserve a retirement with some respect. A 50 match odi talent played more then 200 odis which is his biggest achievement.

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