Taylor, Jarvis set to return, talks with Ervine underprocess

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pariah
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Re: Taylor, Jarvis set to return, talks with Ervine underprocess

Post by pariah »

Could you kindly explain thIS phrase if you don't mind?
Kriterion_BD wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:31 pm
where does Regis bat (unless Moor is picked as the WK)
You'd also continue to open with Hami, despite all the overwhelming evidence against doing that. Fair enough, but my question to you regarding that is - what happens if Hami fails opening again. What then? Bear in mind, Hami is ZImbabwe's best ODI and T20 batsmen since January 2016 to date, and has been pretty much it's only Test batsman(Taylor included) who has been successful both home and away in Tests since Zimbabwe started playing Tests again*.

So you'd pick Williams at 5 over Burl and Malcolm right now? Ok. Between Chatara, Jarvis, Mumba and Cremer, who plays the role of containing and strike bowling, plus what kinds of totals do you think Zimbabwe will be chasing considering all Asian sides are bat heavy and they'll be up against this attack?

After all, Sri lanka did score runs for fun in Zimbabwe recently with that strategy in play - molesting Mumba, Cremer and those "part-timers". Tiripano and Hami played the containing role which spared Zimbabwe a lot of humiliation. Otherwise Cremer and Mumba were a father Christman double-act. Again, Zimbabwe tried the Jarvis+Vitori thing against Pakistan and it was ugly remember? The only time seam has worked for Zimbabwe was when Shingi, Panyangara and Utseya backed up Chatara, or when Chatara, Panyngara and Utseya backed up Vitori. If Zimbabwe plays that attack against a vastly improved Bangladesh or other Asian side, then it's draws or losses for Zimbabwe.

Shingi and Panyangara are still there. Why ignore them? Perhaps a choice between Vitori(if legal)/Jarvis/Chatara to partner then considering Cremer is already there to strike. Or pick Wellington to partner Chatara and convince him to contain(even though he's been arguably Zimbabwe's best Test seamer :roll: ), while Jarvis and Cremer strike.

At least you didn't put in a Test bowling attack that's limited to Jarvis, Chatara and Cremer. Even an SA with Elgar and Duminy - all excellent spinners (plus Faf on his day), would not field Maharaj, Philander and Morkel only. Who do Zimbabwean fans think Zimbabwe possesses - Warne, McGrath and Gillespie :lol: ? Would Australia even do that themselves?

*ZIMBABWE AWAY BATTING IN TEST

Code: Select all

Player		Mat	Inns	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50 
H Masakadza	7	14	431	158	30.78	915	47.10	1	2
RW Chakabva	6	12	422	101	38.36	1027	41.09	1	3
Sikandar Raza	4	8	406	127	50.75	631	64.34	1	3
CR Ervine	6	12	355	160	32.27	711	49.92	1	0
BRM Taylor	6	12	218	45*	19.81	422	51.65	0	0
MN Waller	5	10	180	68	18.00	297	60.60	0	1
AG Cremer	4	8	149	48	18.62	335	44.47	0	0
E Chigumbura	3	6	135	88	22.50	224	60.26	0	1
V Sibanda	3	6	114	35	19.00	173	65.89	0	0
SC Williams	2	4	81	31	20.25	171	47.36	0	0
TMK Mawoyo	3	6	71	50	11.83	155	45.80	0	1
PJ Moor     	1	2	59	40	29.50	131	45.03	0	0

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jaybro
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Re: Taylor, Jarvis set to return, talks with Ervine underprocess

Post by jaybro »

Some valid points but sometimes there's more to cricket than stats ....

Firstly the opening dilemma- Finding good opening batsman has been a never ending challenge for Zimbabwe since their inception to test cricket. Zimbabwe has a history stacking their middle order with its best players & putting the new guy up to open ( it's not a new thing ). In our last test it's Hami & Regis opened and it's probably not their favoured position but both guys were probably lucky to be in the side considering Hami had a woeful home season in tests not passing 50 once ( in his preferred position of 3 ) & Regis had been dropped earlier in the summer for PJ Moor who had done really well with the bat but struggled with the gloves. The other point to remember is the last test was played on a flat track in Sri Lanka not a green deck at Lords, so facing the new ball wasn't a hard task. Both Hami & Regis were dismissed twice by Herath.

Moving forward I believe both these guys have the technique to open in tests ( don't like Regis keeping & opening though ). When you look at all the players available only Tino has scored a 100 opening but fitness is always his issue & that 100 was over 5 years ago so is it still significant when looking at selection ? Tino hasn't passed 50 in tests since 2013 and although he did a good job seeing off the new ball last season are we happy with a guy who can just see off the new ball?

As for our pace attack- Ok a seam attack of Mumba & KJ might send up a few loose balls but Chatara has great control. Yes Tinashe has a great record and bowls that consistent line & length suited for tests but he hasn't played a test since 2014 !!! He's 3 years older now and has been injured for a long time. How fit is he? How well will he be able to perform? A fit Tinashe bowling like he did 4 years ago against Pakistan would be great but is he still at that level? He's been struggling with weight prior to his injuries so not sure what shape he is in?

Also the talk about containing teams in tests is overrated. Our pace attack of Tiripano & Mpofu are 'containing bowlers' but they barely look like taking a wicket. At least with KJ & Mumba they're more likely to strike, KJ has the best strike rate of any Zimbo bowler in our history and well Mumba is a working progress he has height & some speed so IMO he's worth persevering with for now ......

Also the attack you speak of against Pakistan in 2013 which you rate as the only time a seam attack has worked for us. In another thread you called the pitch unplayable when talking about Hami's 72. So was this really our best attack or was the pitch unplayable?
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eugene
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Re: Taylor, Jarvis set to return, talks with Ervine underprocess

Post by eugene »

Pariah, I have been reading your stuff for long enough to know you are full of inconsistencies. You have long spoken of having your best batsmen opening, and not hiding them down the order and sacrificing others at the top. If Hamilton is our best batsman as you claim then by your logic he should be opening. Also, statistically Hammy is not our best ODI batsmen since 2016, that honour goes to Sikandar Raza who averages 0.60 of a run higher during the same period.
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ricky
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Re: Taylor, Jarvis set to return, talks with Ervine underprocess

Post by ricky »

Taylor may be back but doubt Jarvis will return. Zim should rather try to bring Malcom Lake and few others youngsters. Zim badly needs a good all fast bowler, Nathan Waller must be tried.

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Re: Taylor, Jarvis set to return, talks with Ervine underprocess

Post by Kriterion_BD »

ricky wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:07 am
Taylor may be back but doubt Jarvis will return. Zim should rather try to bring Malcom Lake and few others youngsters. Zim badly needs a good all fast bowler, Nathan Waller must be tried.
Tristan Holme mentioend both by name in an article. That means there is a good chance that both will be back. Things in ZIm cricket have changed. The team is doing well. There is a new managing director who isn't a thief. Streak is the coach and with the new Test and ODI leagues, ZIM will have a fixed schedule as will all other teams. There is also something tangible to play for (Test promotion, ODI championship) in addiition to the World Cup.
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Re: Taylor, Jarvis set to return, talks with Ervine underprocess

Post by pariah »

eugene wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:48 am
Pariah, I have been reading your stuff for long enough to know you are full of inconsistencies. You have long spoken of having your best batsmen opening, and not hiding them down the order and sacrificing others at the top. If Hamilton is our best batsman as you claim then by your logic he should be opening. Also, statistically Hammy is not our best ODI batsmen since 2016, that honour goes to Sikandar Raza who averages 0.60 of a run higher during the same period.
Actually I said I don't really rate much below 3 and at times 4. I have also made Hami open in my lineups because I felt he was best placed to open and other options should come in lower(have also screamed for Taylor to open, as have some here on ZCF). But he has failed opening. Same applies to Vusi. But you can have a case of Mawoyo/Duffin failing opening then logically decide there's no reason to bat them lower, but that's not the case with say a Chari or a Musakanda (and by extension Hami and Vusi). They can be tried lower. Equally when someone like Malcolm Waller fails in the middle order some would argue ok he's out. But if someone like Forster Mutizwa fails in the middle order, then you can try him in the top 3 because his career has the bulk of his inning at number 3.

You make it sound like I have inconsistencies not arguments within context. You see them as inconsistencies because you rpoint of view is fixed. Hami can get a king pair and he would be an opener in your next Test XI. Or Brendan Taylor can score a total of 80 runs in 6 innings overseas, but you'd still pick him in your XI on your next overseas tour simply because he's "Brendan Taylor". It doesn't work that way. Australia made Usman Khawaja carry drinks on an entire tour but he will definitely be part of their XI in the next Test at home. This is also why Zimbabwe ends up being hammered by a Scotland side in conditions in which a Panyangara could have skittled them out for 90 runs in under 25 overs, because they picked non-bowlers as bowlers in unsuitable conditions. That's the same inflexible outlook which reduced sessions during the Sri Lanka Test into a joke. Did you hear what they called it - "Two very bad teams, playing very bad cricket, which made it an exciting contest"

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Re: Taylor, Jarvis set to return, talks with Ervine underprocess

Post by Andybligzz »

pariah wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:52 am
eugene wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:48 am
Pariah, I have been reading your stuff for long enough to know you are full of inconsistencies. You have long spoken of having your best batsmen opening, and not hiding them down the order and sacrificing others at the top. If Hamilton is our best batsman as you claim then by your logic he should be opening. Also, statistically Hammy is not our best ODI batsmen since 2016, that honour goes to Sikandar Raza who averages 0.60 of a run higher during the same period.
Actually I said I don't really rate much below 3 and at times 4. I have also made Hami open in my lineups because I felt he was best placed to open and other options should come in lower(have also screamed for Taylor to open, as have some here on ZCF). But he has failed opening. Same applies to Vusi. But you can have a case of Mawoyo/Duffin failing opening then logically decide there's no reason to bat them lower, but that's not the case with say a Chari or a Musakanda (and by extension Hami and Vusi). They can be tried lower. Equally when someone like Malcolm Waller fails in the middle order some would argue ok he's out. But if someone like Forster Mutizwa fails in the middle order, then you can try him in the top 3 because his career has the bulk of his inning at number 3.

You make it sound like I have inconsistencies not arguments within context. You see them as inconsistencies because you rpoint of view is fixed. Hami can get a king pair and he would be an opener in your next Test XI. Or Brendan Taylor can score a total of 80 runs in 6 innings overseas, but you'd still pick him in your XI on your next overseas tour simply because he's "Brendan Taylor". It doesn't work that way. Australia made Usman Khawaja carry drinks on an entire tour but he will definitely be part of their XI in the next Test at home. This is also why Zimbabwe ends up being hammered by a Scotland side in conditions in which a Panyangara could have skittled them out for 90 runs in under 25 overs, because they picked non-bowlers as bowlers in unsuitable conditions. That's the same inflexible outlook which reduced sessions during the Sri Lanka Test into a joke. Did you hear what they called it - "Two very bad teams, playing very bad cricket, which made it an exciting contest"
This is very spot on and a very good way of putting things.Only thing I would slightly disagree on would be Brendan Taylor , he's a class batsman and one of the only batsman rated around the world , he has made tons in England as well. I get his record is poor away from home in tests but at the age of 31 I feel his best is about to come.
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