Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

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jaybro
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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by jaybro » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:18 am

Also it under the reign of the Great Mongongo Zimbabwe twice fielded test lineups against Bangladesh in Asia with 8 batsman in the second and third tests ......

Chigumbura took the new ball for goodness sakes .....

Also considering there was no Williams & Raza was only recently bowling the Zimbabwe attack was extra thin and Mongongo's tactics heaped too much pressure on young Natsai M'shangwe to shoulder the spin attack which resulted in him being belted around by the Tigers. Mongongo did the young leggie no favours that series but I guess he wasn't a fan of M'shangwe considering he had kneed him in the groin only a year earlier ......
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

pariah
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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by pariah » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:36 pm

jaybro wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:18 am
Chigumbura took the new ball for goodness sakes .....
What are you implying about Elton's new-ball bowling prowess?

Opening bowling in Tests

Opening bowling in ODIs

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

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jaybro
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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by jaybro » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:37 pm

pariah wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:36 pm
jaybro wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:18 am
Chigumbura took the new ball for goodness sakes .....
What are you implying about Elton's new-ball bowling prowess?

Opening bowling in Tests

Opening bowling in ODIs
Yeup he bowled one great spell in the 2nd innings on a pitch that was doing plenty or as you would put it "unplayable", then took 1 more wicket for the remainder of the series. He barely bowled then in the ODI series and the World Cup that followed .....

Elton's ODI bowling stats are all from when he was younger and actually bowled ....

A quick look here at the Bowling of Chigumbura in that series shows 5 wickets @37, these stats are not manipulated like yours which take out his bad bowling performances but highlight his one good one. Standard Hhm manipulating stats :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... ype=series
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

pariah
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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by pariah » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:23 am

Jaybro in pretty much every response you make to my posts, you respond to nothing they contain or speak to. I'm aware of the limited knowledge you have about ZImbabwean cricket and it's players, but you never take that into consideration about yourself when you comment. Often you do so authoritatively yet without basis. Again you make basic errors in either accusing me of not responding to or reading something when I clearly have done.

Everyone here is aware of Elton's bowling. In this insatnce you ridicule Elton's selection as an opening bowler, and I responded factually.

As you can see, those stats are not only when Elton was young and doing a lot of bowling, Also when he was older and post his injuries. It's also common knowledge that Elton is very effective using the new ball, particularly against left-handers. Butcher and Mangongo using him that way was not out of the ordinary. He often proved it was the right move.

Bear in mind that, before Zimbabwe resumed Tests, and just after that, they played a lot of high quality A/XI games against very competitive sides - as well as Tri-Series etc. Elton took the new ball and he excelled with it. There was reason behind both his selection and trust in him to bowl.

Recall Elton went to Bangladesh's domestic competitions a couple of years back and he was an MVP or thereabouts. Not just for his batting, but also his bowling, a lot of it as an opening bowler. Yes in other games or other visits he did have shockers with the ball, but my point is he was a trusted bowler.

In my opinion Elton Chigumbura is a superior Test allrounder to Mire and Nathna Waller, however those two haven't yet had their chance. However, tomorrow if one had a choice to pick an allrounder between Sean Williams and Elton Chigumbura, Chigumbura would win. They've both played about the same Test matches since 2011, and Chigumbura has a 13.53 differerence, while Williams has a 25.74 difference.

Factually and statistically, no one here can prove why Elton, like Vusi, was even dropped to begin with - format by format. Since 2011, I challenge anyone to try an dprove that, since you say I doctor stats. Go for it.

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

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jaybro
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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by jaybro » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:29 am

pariah wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:23 am
Jaybro in pretty much every response you make to my posts, you respond to nothing they contain or speak to. I'm aware of the limited knowledge you have about ZImbabwean cricket and it's players, but you never take that into consideration about yourself when you comment. Often you do so authoritatively yet without basis. Again you make basic errors in either accusing me of not responding to or reading something when I clearly have done.

Everyone here is aware of Elton's bowling. In this insatnce you ridicule Elton's selection as an opening bowler, and I responded factually.

As you can see, those stats are not only when Elton was young and doing a lot of bowling, Also when he was older and post his injuries. It's also common knowledge that Elton is very effective using the new ball, particularly against left-handers. Butcher and Mangongo using him that way was not out of the ordinary. He often proved it was the right move.

Bear in mind that, before Zimbabwe resumed Tests, and just after that, they played a lot of high quality A/XI games against very competitive sides - as well as Tri-Series etc. Elton took the new ball and he excelled with it. There was reason behind both his selection and trust in him to bowl.

Recall Elton went to Bangladesh's domestic competitions a couple of years back and he was an MVP or thereabouts. Not just for his batting, but also his bowling, a lot of it as an opening bowler. Yes in other games or other visits he did have shockers with the ball, but my point is he was a trusted bowler.

In my opinion Elton Chigumbura is a superior Test allrounder to Mire and Nathna Waller, however those two haven't yet had their chance. However, tomorrow if one had a choice to pick an allrounder between Sean Williams and Elton Chigumbura, Chigumbura would win. They've both played about the same Test matches since 2011, and Chigumbura has a 13.53 differerence, while Williams has a 25.74 difference.

Factually and statistically, no one here can prove why Elton, like Vusi, was even dropped to begin with - format by format. Since 2011, I challenge anyone to try an dprove that, since you say I doctor stats. Go for it.

I'd say 99% of that is bullshit, but that 1% I'm giving you is just me being kind :D
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

Jemisi
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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by Jemisi » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:23 pm

Saying Chigs is superior to Waller and Mire isn't saying much.

Vusi is superior to Chari and Maruma.

Ok. But they won't take the team forward. If there were a plane crash and we had to replace the top 7 then sure, stick them in.

pariah
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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by pariah » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:30 pm

Jemisi wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:23 pm
Saying Chigs is superior to Waller and Mire isn't saying much.
But that's the problem here on ZCF. Statements carry more weight than stats.

When people delve into stats only then do they realise just how much they severely underrated a player.

I said it in my last "reincarnation" and as I've said the worst period in Zimbabwe cricekt actually occured when these so-called useless players were sidelined for the so-called superior ones. It was dreadful!

No one will dare admit that, but it's a fact that's left an indelible mark in the history of Zimbabwe cricket.

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

Jemisi
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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by Jemisi » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:57 pm

We can all 'delve'.

Chigs has some major flaws. Very low hundred ratio both at domestic and international levels.1 per 52.2 innings & 1 per 132.5 innings respectively.

Recent form is terrible. This year he has 132 runs @ 14.67. Domestically he is averaging below 15 this year from 10 innings.

He hasn't bowled. He has 450 career wickets. Same number as last year. He hardly bowled himself as captain. He has no confidence.

Elton carried hopes in dark days. At least someone in the team might whack a few, but that guy hasn't been around since you were Hhm.

Can he have a turnaround? Maybe. He is only 31.

Should the bloke who has smashed a thousand List A runs in the last year be ahead of him as a lower order hitter?

Yes.

tawac
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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by tawac » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:27 pm

Jemisi wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:57 pm
We can all 'delve'.

Chigs has some major flaws. Very low hundred ratio both at domestic and international levels.1 per 52.2 innings & 1 per 132.5 innings respectively.

Recent form is terrible. This year he has 132 runs @ 14.67. Domestically he is averaging below 15 this year from 10 innings.

He hasn't bowled. He has 450 career wickets. Same number as last year. He hardly bowled himself as captain. He has no confidence.

Elton carried hopes in dark days. At least someone in the team might whack a few, but that guy hasn't been around since you were Hhm.

Can he have a turnaround? Maybe. He is only 31.

Should the bloke who has smashed a thousand List A runs in the last year be ahead of him as a lower order hitter?

Yes.
Quite true Elty has just been terrible this season and is badly out of form. He couldn't even crack the A team. But if he makes that right and gets in a few good knocks surely he could have a look in. That said, Raza had a horrible domestic season and shouldn't have been anywhere near the national team based on that performance. But he came good on tour and scored more than just a few. What do i know?
CHRISTOPHER MPOFU: 'The problem was fear of failure. I used to think that when I played, if I didn't do well in one game, I would lose my place for the next one but now I've let go of that'

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watermelon
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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by watermelon » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:50 pm

watermelon here to clear things up,

Chigs has been needlessly made a scapegoat by Streak, Cremer, and co. Chigs should be one of the first names on the teamsheet as he is still our only real allrounder. Williams masquerading as an allrounder is ridiculous, he basically cost us victory against the Lankans with his inability to bat or bowl.

-watermelon.
<3 Jemisi rules <3

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