Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

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sloandog
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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by sloandog » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:03 pm

Streak had the edge over Panyangara imn the sense that the he was the only Zimbabwean bowler (perhaps excluding price towards the end of his career) in which a batter would be weary. Streak may have averaged those numbers mate but he still had the x factor.

I remember Panyangara against England in 04' and i'll be the first to admit that I thought he was going to be as good as Streak. Back then he could hit the bat hard and he swung it. I just think he lost it slightly whilst he was away, because he certainly had the pace and the bounce, as well as that x factor I was referring to with Streak.

I don't really look into conditions too much, just the wickets, and Streak, even at the very very end in 2005, still managed a test match 6 for against a strong Indian batting order.
When in doubt, listen to Oasis chaps....

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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by tawac » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:33 pm

The SA side just piling on runs at the moment 426/6. What happened to Mutombodzi? Did he get injured? Our bowlers looking very ordinary as usual.
CHRISTOPHER MPOFU: 'The problem was fear of failure. I used to think that when I played, if I didn't do well in one game, I would lose my place for the next one but now I've let go of that'

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Black Mamba
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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by Black Mamba » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:51 pm

Experienced Zimbabwe A side so called " Emerging Side " can't dominate inexperienced under 23 Emerging team of South Africa.

Thats the future of Zimbabwe Cricket, probably the reason why Steak wants talented ex Zimbabwean players playing in other nations, to be back playing for Zimbabwe


Chibhabha & Chari seems to be fit in every age group, National team, A team, High Performance Side, Emerging Side, very soon selectors might pick them for the Under 19 World Cup 2018 :D

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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by pariah » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:45 pm

sloandog wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:03 pm
Streak had the edge over Panyangara imn the sense that the he was the only Zimbabwean bowler (perhaps excluding price towards the end of his career) in which a batter would be weary. Streak may have averaged those numbers mate but he still had the x factor.

I remember Panyangara against England in 04' and i'll be the first to admit that I thought he was going to be as good as Streak. Back then he could hit the bat hard and he swung it. I just think he lost it slightly whilst he was away, because he certainly had the pace and the bounce, as well as that x factor I was referring to with Streak.

I don't really look into conditions too much, just the wickets, and Streak, even at the very very end in 2005, still managed a test match 6 for against a strong Indian batting order.
I'd like to think I'm very fair to Streak the player in my comments about him.

On the other hand 1/10 for Streak the coach would be extremely generous. Even at the Tuskers if one really thinks about it, that side was bound to dominate domestic cricket in Zimbabawe. Fact that it didn't dominate all competitions is a sign of the extent of a coach's failure or limitations.

Reminds one of Mchael Clarke: "[Buchanan] is still living off the fact that he coached a team that anyone, even my dog Jerry, could have coached to world domination"

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by pariah » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:04 pm

Black Mamba wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:51 pm
Experienced Zimbabwe A side so called " Emerging Side " can't dominate inexperienced under 23 Emerging team of South Africa.

Thats the future of Zimbabwe Cricket, probably the reason why Steak wants talented ex Zimbabwean players playing in other nations, to be back playing for Zimbabwe


Chibhabha & Chari seems to be fit in every age group, National team, A team, High Performance Side, Emerging Side, very soon selectors might pick them for the Under 19 World Cup 2018 :D
Harsh. Very harsh! This SA Emerging Side has some serious talent, particularly the batsmen.

Once again, it's a case of proper youngsters should be representing Zimbabwe, not seniors who might go at this half-hearted against highly motivated youngsters looking to make a statement.

A fair contest woubld be the likes of Jongwe, Madziva, Wellington and Chikomba involved. But the first 3 of those are actually very able internationals in their own right, and would have shot SA-EM for very little.

I can understand Mushangwe. He's been messed around a lot. He (plus Mutombodzi) showed a lot of ability bowling away in a tour of West Indies some years ago. Very embarassing how they've been treated since. You can't reject Mushangwe in SL then make him come back to Zimbabwe as the leading Logan Cup bowler and play him in this match.

SA would never do that to Shamsi or Leie. Why should ZC do that to Mushangwe? Yet another reason why I say Taibu has been a disaster. Even without watching the match you can tell Chibhabha's captaincy has been trash!

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

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jaybro
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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by jaybro » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:15 pm

pariah wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:23 pm
jaybro wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:30 am
Tinashe is a very average ODI bowler has 65 wickets from 65 games at nearly 47 going at over 5 and a half an over. I don't understand why people carry on like he's the second coming of Heath Streak :lol:
You know, at a time when run rates were very low, Streak used to go at 4.5rpo in ODIs, and often times the top sides also sent weakened teams to play against ZImbabwe quite often.

Fast forward to the age of powerplays, aggressive batting and huge bats, Lonwabo Tsotsobe was going at 4.75rpo. Streak got 7 4WI(and a fifer) as pretty much Zimbabwe's only premier ODI bowler with the new ball everytime, but in 200 matches. Lonwabo achieved the same in just 60 matches and he bowled to every batsman who can call himself or be termed great in that era. From that perspective I don't think Streak was all that great either, especially if you compare their ODI careers like-for-like.

The sad reality is that guys Panyangara were thrown into the deepend far too early and with little or zero FC experience. One may actually find that if their stats were compared with others after they had some experience, plus a numbers of factors considered, then their stats actually look much better.

Bangladesh, England(plus conditions) and Pakistan have had the weekest ODI batting orders during Streak's career and naturally he's done very well against them and it's boosted his career. In contrast Panyangara last played against England in England when he was 18 and had zero experience really. In 23 ODIs in India against that fearsome order, Streak averages 53 and a SR of over 60 - that's more than 1 match per wicket! More Panyangara-like?

Anyway, apart from Bangladesh where he's played 12 times (and averages 26), the only other place where Panyangara has played more than 5 times is Pakistan, and he averages 40. The rest being the odd match or two - and most of them during international tournaments, meaning stakes are higher than bilaterals, and you face the best 6/7 batsmen of that side's best XI.

As always, it's important to take a number of factors into consideration, and I think a lot of reporters and commentators have rightly sung Panyangara's praises. He really looks world class 80% of the time, in any format!
Standard Hhm "Its always important to take a number of factors into consideration " which translates into 'Point out and highlight the factors which support your argument but disregard the factors which a relevant.

FACT When Streak played Zimbabwe would often tour Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka, England, New Zealand, South Africa and the West Indies. The only easy side he ever faced was Bangladesh and Kenya. Tinashe has toured BD & Pakistan once and played in the WC in oz so the quality of opposition he faced was no where near the quality Streak faced. In every stat Streak is superior to Tinashe in ODI cricket FACT. Tinashe was good bowling up front but terrible at the end and you need your strike bowler taking more than 1 wicket per match over 65 games, that's just embarrassing .....

Also don't know why you're comparing Streak to that match fixer from South Africa ?? Not really relevant .....
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

Kriterion_BD
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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by Kriterion_BD » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:44 pm

pariah wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:50 am

Once again, the question is, in INTERNATIONALS:
1. Where do Moor, Malcolm and Burl bat?
2. Where do Chari and Musakanda bat?

NB: I know Kunje, Musakanda, Chari and Kasuza have predominantly opened in FC cricket, but in his entire career does Malcolm Waller even know what first over of a match at the crease feels like, be it Club, FC, List A, o B League? Bear in mind, he averages 23 in tests having never batted higher than number 5 and predominantly 6th.

Perhaps Musakanda's appearing as if he "knows how to bat" as you put it, is because of the minor relief of not having to face the new ball. Imagine if he batted 6. He'd look as brilliant as Regis or even more. And Regis does look a class act batting lower(6/7) in Tests after keeping wicket for 100+ overs, even though he bats in the top 3/4 in domestic FC cricket. Food for thought!
You can only make 2 guys open the batting, dude!

ZIM have no specialist opener besides Mawoyo and since he hasn't been picked, there isn't really anyone to do the job. Regis and Hamilton put their hands up most recently, its not some conspiracy to "protect" the white guys. Even Raza has opened some in Tests, but he and Craig are far too valuable in the middle order.

Lets say Chari got to play in the middle order. His Test average might go from 14 (current) to 25. A gain of 11. But if you then force Ervine to open because he's white, his average might fall more than 11. The marginal gain is more than ofset by the marginal loss. And frankly its a rule in cricket that your best batters should bat where they want (ie their preferred or natural positions) and that your very best batters should be at 3 and 4. Just like the best bowlers ought to get to choose which end they bowl from, what sort of field they want, and when in the innings they want to bowl.
Truth is on the side of the oppressed; its against the oppressor. Time is on the side of the oppressed; its against the oppressor. You don't need anything else.
[Malcolm X]

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sloandog
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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by sloandog » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:17 am

Streak 1 out of 10 coach..? Interesting, especially since he won for the first time ever in Sri Lanka
When in doubt, listen to Oasis chaps....

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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by pariah » Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:44 am

sloandog wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:17 am
Streak 1 out of 10 coach..? Interesting, especially since he won for the first time ever in Sri Lanka
Don't confuse Ntini brilliance with Streak abilities.
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The rest I'll answer via a new thread.

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

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Re: Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Post by foreignfield » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:37 pm

pariah wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:04 pm
I can understand Mushangwe. He's been messed around a lot. He (plus Mutombodzi) showed a lot of ability bowling away in a tour of West Indies some years ago. Very embarassing how they've been treated since.
Mushangwe had his confidence shattered in the Tests in Bangladesh--where he was picked as the main spin-bowler on the back of his good domestic form and the glimpses of promise he had shown in the Windies and elsewhere. It turned out he was out of his depth against quality players of spin. You can't fault the selectors for that. He had a lean run for the Goats afterwards and only started to find his feet again in this years' Logan Cup, again largely against batsmen who simply can't play spin.

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