2nd Unofficial Test : Zimbabwe A V/s South Africa Emerging Side

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pariah
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Re: 2nd Unofficial Test : Zimbabwe A V/s South Africa Emerging Side

Post by pariah » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:35 am

eugene wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:30 pm
You are from a village? I thought you were an IT guy from Gauteng?
I don't think you know or understand just how broad IT is. But having IT skills, and IT being one of the avenues or businesses you earn income from, doesn't make you "an IT guy". My core qualifications(two of them) are both completely different from the IT industry - and you should have picked that up by now. But if one is planting their CV online what's the point of using pseudonyms? No one is from Gauteng by the way, certainly not me. Just the province(state) I'm in 50% of the time.

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

pariah
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Re: 2nd Unofficial Test : Zimbabwe A V/s South Africa Emerging Side

Post by pariah » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:37 am

Jemisi wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:35 am
I assumed he meant ancestral village. You don't need to live in the village to own it.
How they even misread that one is beyond me. :lol:

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

pariah
Posts: 847
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:27 pm
Supports: Matabeleland Tuskers

Re: 2nd Unofficial Test : Zimbabwe A V/s South Africa Emerging Side

Post by pariah » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:30 am

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:50 pm
...Why do these black dudes in SA then crank out serious pace and raw talent but our guys over the ditch can't crank 130?
We've discussed this before. Not all "black" dudes. We're very different tribes with different genetics and size. Our people(Nguni) are pretty big, but I believe that my tribe are the biggest within that group. They're the ones you see play rugby mostly - my dad and eldest brother played it a lot and they were quite big - my eldest brother turned down a scholarship to go play basketball in the US (traditional comiitments...I know). I'm quite imposing myself and can play 8th man or be a waste at lock if the team is desperate, and my youngest brother arguably bigger. It's weird that tiny Bavuma, is one of us. But rugby is much cheaper than cricket so most guys go there, while a few become bowlers in cricket because again it's cheaper. In truth when people talk quotas in SA, it's mostly one tribe of Blacks dominating rugby and cricket, so just 15-20% of the population so far, and that must improve because the purpose is defeated in a way.

Some people in ZIM have got Nguni roots, but 'interbreeding" has affected them the most. Whites in Zim are quite small too compared to most whites by the way. Anyway, I think there were some pretty big Zim players by Zim standards - Everton Matambadzo, Watambwa, and to a lesser extent Hami and Shingi. But again within the Shona, they are actually not all Shona per se but other main tribes painted with one brush. They are the ones best placed to tell you which tribes are the biggest and which certain surnames fall under the bigger tribe.

But size isn't everything - look at Rabada, plus he's not Nguni. There are many countries with big, powerful and fast guys but sadly those countries don't play cricket (or rugby) - e.g. Nigeria and DRC.

My personal biased view is that ZImbabweans should be the most dominant African in many areas - business, science & tech, etc including sports. The only reasons they not is because they lack heart and they are cowards. They're quitters not resolute or gritty. More of followers than leaders. Sadly, I also think they have far too low a value of themselves than they are worth. That often translates into not trusting themselves. So even though some of them have the talent and coaching to be scoring hundreds for fun, and plenty bowling 145kph, they fall short. They flatter to deceive, not just in sports (soccer, cricket, tennis, rugby, athletics etc), but also other areas. Globally, Zimbabweans are under-represented among the elite.
Last edited by pariah on Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

pariah
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Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:27 pm
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Re: 2nd Unofficial Test : Zimbabwe A V/s South Africa Emerging Side

Post by pariah » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:33 am

Flakeman wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:46 pm
Yea cuz they're setting the Franchise scene absolutely alight ! I have no idea what world you live in. And you say the black 11 are spanking India A ? Last I checked, Cook, Markhram, Miller, Piedt, and Hendricks weren't black. Mr. Test squad, Phelukwayo having a fantastic game with a 2nd ball duck and not a single wicket in the game so far.
Was the side ZIMDOGGY referred to as a "black 11" black?

You can't just wade into a discussion without checking everything. In any case, note my use of the words - black/Black.

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

foreignfield
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Re: 2nd Unofficial Test : Zimbabwe A V/s South Africa Emerging Side

Post by foreignfield » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:45 pm

pariah wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:30 am
My personal biased view is that ZImbabweans should be the most dominant African in many areas - business, science & tech, etc including sports. The only reasons they not is because they lack heart and they are cowards. They're quitters not resolute or gritty. More of followers than leaders. Sadly, I also think they have far too low a value of themselves than they are worth. That often translates into not trusting themselves. So even though some of them have the talent and coaching to be scoring hundreds for fun, and plenty bowling 145kph, they fall short. They flatter to deceive, not just in sports (soccer, cricket, tennis, rugby, athletics etc), but also other areas. Globally, Zimbabweans are under-represented among the elite.
The fact was staring me into the face over the last week during the World Athletics, where you see comparatively tiny Botswana turning out one world class 200 to 800 m runner after another, while Zim's representation was about on par with Malawi.

I cannot and will not comment on your 'moral' arguments, but only say as much that failed countries or societies rarely turn out droves of world class athletes. You mentioned the DRC elsewhere: that's been a mess for 150 years, and no wonder the country is grossly underrepresented on the sporting stage.

ZIMDOGGY
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Re: 2nd Unofficial Test : Zimbabwe A V/s South Africa Emerging Side

Post by ZIMDOGGY » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:55 pm

pariah wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:30 am
ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:50 pm
...Why do these black dudes in SA then crank out serious pace and raw talent but our guys over the ditch can't crank 130?
We've discussed this before. Not all "black" dudes. We're very different tribes with different genetics and size. Our people(Nguni) are pretty big, but I believe that my tribe are the biggest within that group. They're the ones you see play rugby mostly - my dad and eldest brother played it a lot and they were quite big - my eldest brother turned down a scholarship to go play basketball in the US (traditional comiitments...I know). I'm quite imposing myself and can play 8th man or be a waste at lock if the team is desperate, and my youngest brother arguably bigger. It's weird that tiny Bavuma, is one of us. But rugby is much cheaper than cricket so most guys go there, while a few become bowlers in cricket because again it's cheaper. In truth when people talk quotas in SA, it's mostly one tribe of Blacks dominating rugby and cricket, so just 15-20% of the population so far, and that must improve because the purpose is defeated in a way.

Some people in ZIM have got Nguni roots, but 'interbreeding" has affected them the most. Whites in Zim are quite small too compared to most whites by the way. Anyway, I think there were some pretty big Zim players by Zim standards - Everton Matambadzo, Watambwa, and to a lesser extent Hami and Shingi. But again within the Shona, they are actually not all Shona per se but other main tribes painted with one brush. They are the ones best placed to tell you which tribes are the biggest and which certain surnames fall under the bigger tribe.

But size isn't everything - look at Rabada, plus he's not Nguni. There are many countries with big, powerful and fast guys but sadly those countries don't play cricket (or rugby) - e.g. Nigeria and DRC.

My personal biased view is that ZImbabweans should be the most dominant African in many areas - business, science & tech, etc including sports. The only reasons they not is because they lack heart and they are cowards. They're quitters not resolute or gritty. More of followers than leaders. Sadly, I also think they have far too low a value of themselves than they are worth. That often translates into not trusting themselves. So even though some of them have the talent and coaching to be scoring hundreds for fun, and plenty bowling 145kph, they fall short. They flatter to deceive, not just in sports (soccer, cricket, tennis, rugby, athletics etc), but also other areas. Globally, Zimbabweans are under-represented among the elite.
I'll address the others at a later time (a lot id agree) but for now what's this Nguni stuff?

You've said before you were a Ndebele by heritage!
Cricinfo profile of the 'James Bond' of cricket:

FULL NAME: Angus James Mackay
BORN: 13 June 1967, Harare
KNOWN AS: Gus Mackay

'The' Gus Mackay.

Hero.
Sportsman.
Artist.
Player.

**
Q. VUSI SIBANDA, WHERE DO YOU HOP?

A. UNDA DA ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE*

pariah
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Re: 2nd Unofficial Test : Zimbabwe A V/s South Africa Emerging Side

Post by pariah » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:38 pm

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:55 pm
I'll address the others at a later time (a lot id agree) but for now what's this Nguni stuff?

You've said before you were a Ndebele by heritage!
Nope. Not what I said - viewtopic.php?p=32090#p32090.

I'm not strong on African history(mostly foreign) because we didn't write it ourself, but again we discussed that remember viewtopic.php?p=37309#p37309. Getting old? :lol:

You can read just the opening paragraph here about Nguni people - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguni_people. It's got plenty flaws when it attempts to go indepth, but it gives you a general idea.

The Ndebele in Zimbabwe are actually a hybrid of nationalities or tribes - much like the Afrikaaners (Scandinaians, Belgians, French and Dutch), which is why they can sound funny at times with expressions that never made sense to me - hanti, hancho, khonyapho(?). But they do have Nguni elements, except then they only had a few of them remaining when they fled to ZIM, with the population swelled by other nationalities they picked up on the way. Maybe that is why genetically they are not as big as Swazi, Zulu and Xhosa people. And like the Shona they therefore don't have the size into sports for ZIM's benefit.

But again, all of that is debatable because the Chinese are small but dominate in many areas, including sport, even if we accept that they have a wealth in sheer numbers.

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

Jemisi
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Re: 2nd Unofficial Test : Zimbabwe A V/s South Africa Emerging Side

Post by Jemisi » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:36 am

pariah wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:37 am
Jemisi wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:35 am
I assumed he meant ancestral village. You don't need to live in the village to own it.
How they even misread that one is beyond me. :lol:
It is no longer a Western concept. Most of our village connections are 18th Century, pre-industrial revolution. To have one now you pretty much need to have been born and raised in a rural settlement.

pariah
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Re: 2nd Unofficial Test : Zimbabwe A V/s South Africa Emerging Side

Post by pariah » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:59 pm

Jemisi wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:36 am
pariah wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:37 am
Jemisi wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:35 am
I assumed he meant ancestral village. You don't need to live in the village to own it.
How they even misread that one is beyond me. :lol:
It is no longer a Western concept. Most of our village connections are 18th Century, pre-industrial revolution. To have one now you pretty much need to have been born and raised in a rural settlement.
I think pretty much all Africans who work, have a village we live in during holidays (public holidays, school holidays and december company breaks etc), even if they were born in town so to speak.

I think the only reason you guys don't have them is because you doon't have land ... every patch used - which is why you had to "steal" land and are al over the place. :lol:

But anyway there's a lot of talent in such places.

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

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