Tristan Holme Response

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Detective RDS
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Re: Tristan Holme Response

Post by Detective RDS »

pariah wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:40 am
Whether Bangladeshis like it or not, Mohammad Ashraful remians its biggest match-winner (batting alone, even though most Zimbabweans will recall he's won BD quite a few with the ball too) - more than Tamim and Sakib. The boy singlehandedly got Bangladesh Test status. He's perhaps the greatest cricekter in that regard! :lol:
Really, Mohammad Ashraful ''remains'' the biggest match winner of Bangladesh ??? :lol:

I guess Shakib Al Hasan has something to say about it !

By the way, how did the boy (Ashraful) singlehandedly get Bangladesh test status ? For your kind information, Bangladesh was already playing test cricket when Ashraful debuted at tests in 2001. Bangladesh started playing in this format from 2000.

Shakib Al Hasan is the biggest match winner of Bangladesh followed by Tamim Iqbal. Both are miles ahead of Ashraful. Even Mahmudullah has scored winning ODI 100 against Eng in WC 2015 & NZ in CT 2017. Both Shakib & Tamim had contributed to test victories against major sides. Not to forget Shakib's 100 against New Zealand in the Champions trophy. Ashraful's match winning innings' were 100 vs AUS, 90 something vs SOU in WC 2007 & a 50+ against WI I guess in T20 WC 2007.

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jaybro
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Re: Tristan Holme Response

Post by jaybro »

I'm against the '2 tier' idea I'd rather all sides in the same league and work out some type of way to make there more incentive to 'win' than the current Test rankings. I would love to see Zimbabwe play 8-10 test a year and I'd love to see Zimbabwe tour Australia, England and even India. I understand that the players would struggle at first but I think overall it would be more beneficial in terms of

-player development
-player retention & getting some players back
-financial & marketing purposes

Hiding away in the wilderness since 2004 hasn't worked out well has it ? We're miles behind Bangladesh and behind Afghanistan as well, you could argue Ireland is in front also. Prior to 2004 we toured England and Australia in 2003 and India a couple years before so if the old generation could do it why can't the new generation do it?

Especially since the new generation are way better right Hhm??
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Kriterion_BD
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Re: Tristan Holme Response

Post by Kriterion_BD »

jaybro wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:01 am
I'm against the '2 tier' idea I'd rather all sides in the same league and work out some type of way to make there more incentive to 'win' than the current Test rankings. I would love to see Zimbabwe play 8-10 test a year and I'd love to see Zimbabwe tour Australia, England and even India. I understand that the players would struggle at first but I think overall it would be more beneficial in terms of

-player development
-player retention & getting some players back
-financial & marketing purposes

Hiding away in the wilderness since 2004 hasn't worked out well has it ? We're miles behind Bangladesh and behind Afghanistan as well, you could argue Ireland is in front also. Prior to 2004 we toured England and Australia in 2003 and India a couple years before so if the old generation could do it why can't the new generation do it?

Especially since the new generation are way better right Hhm??
Those are actually some of the best points for ZIM's inclusion.

One of the issues is the ICC has reverted to the 2014 era "play only who you want" scheme. That means in a 12 team league, there would be no difference to what we have right now. The big 3 would continue to neglect BD, ZIM, IRE, and AFG with the token series here and there. But with 11 opponents to play, vs the current 9 it would mean a very cramped schedule.

The most sensible idea therefore is one with 2 equal conferences of 6 teams each. But the problem with this is that its highly unlikely for all 3 of India, England, and Australia to be in the same conference every cycle. There may be a way to solve that dilemma.

In any possible draw, 2 of the big 3 will always end up in the same conference...no problems there. But one will miss out. But if you engineer it so that the team missing out is always paired with South Africa (or the next biggest financial draw), and limit each cycle to 2 years, you can guarantee that an Ashes tournament or Border-Gavaskar/Pataudi Trophy still occurs at roughly the same interval as now. Or an alternative will be that in each 2 year cycle you will play all 5 teams in your conference, plus one team from the opposite conference. Problems solved.

Another possibility will be to pool all the TV rights together as one big package and then split the pie according to the model just approved by the ICC. India would still get the biggest share, followed by England, and then everyone else. That way even Ireland vs Zimbabwe contests would be no less financially viable as the Ashes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjtuZBykSzM (Noreaga - Blood Money Part 3)

TapsC
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Re: Tristan Holme Response

Post by TapsC »

In terms of what exactly are Ireland ahead of us? Afghanistan has proven that but for me Ireland still has a long way to go and I actually think they are a team in decline. Now that they are full members they will have nowhere to hide and will get the games to prove that they are good enough. We have many problems but we also like to forget that we have beaten 9 out of the 11 full members we have played in the last 5 years in at least 1 format. Ireland beating us at the world cup does not make them better than us. Afghanistan on the other hand will shock many and I personally believe they will grab a couple of wins over the west Indies(like they already did), this current sri lanka team and Bangladesh.

As for our test record it has been shown that we actually don't have the worst record after the number of tests we have played. Its not an easy format as the new members will soon realize. I think the next 4 potential test matches are some of the most important in our cricketing history. Hopefully its 2 against the west Indies, 1 against Afghanistan and by some miracle that South African boxing day test if we get it. I hope Tristan can shed more light on whether these games are actually happening. We need to beat the West Indies once, beat Afghanistan and take SA to day 5 by any means necessary. That's the only way we are going to stop this test league chatter. positive results and performances. The admin seems to be doing ok at this moment so its up to the players to put their hands up now and play some good cricket. I have always put some blame on these guys as I believe that they are not that bad but just don't apply themselves at crucial moments, something they did do right in the last ODI series. They need to continue believing in themselves and this break they have had has definitely not helped them. I would go as far as to say on paper our batting line-up can match the West Indies( especially if Taylor comes back).

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jaybro
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Re: Tristan Holme Response

Post by jaybro »

I said "you could argue" Ireland was ahead of Zimbabwe, and I'm sure the Irish fans will have valid points to why they're better.

Zimbabwe have played Ireland 10 times and Zimbabwe have won 5 Ireland 4 and the one tie. But in the 'Big matches' at World Cups Ireland have 2 wins and the tie.

The two sides are very similar and it would be hard to really say which is the better side. The two sides always have tight battles and although they rarely verse each other they have quite a good rivalry going.

Zimbabwe and Ireland should play more often.
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Kriterion_BD
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Re: Tristan Holme Response

Post by Kriterion_BD »

TapsC wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:13 pm
The West Indies are improving simply because they play a lot more than us. That's the only way you can improve and that's why the test league for me is counter-productive. I have no doubt in my mind that if we played 3 tests against this Sri Lanka we would have won 1. I also believe we will beat the west indies at least once but I fear that ZC will convert one test into 3 ODIs to make more money. If the ICC really wanted to help us they would subsidize all our test matches so that we break even. you cant exactly blame the board for making $4 million by playing limited overs games against india instead of tests.. in the end they need money to survive. for me the big 3 plus SA as well as NZ and Pakistan recently are the real test forces. I honestly wouldn't expect Bangladesh, Sri Lanka or the West Indies to white wash us at home so I don't believe they should be put in a higher league. in the end every game has minnows. As long as we push tests up to the 5th day then we should be allowed to be in the same league as some of these countries.
This might be of interest to those who like stats crunching...

I have created my own rankings forumula as an alternative to the ICC's official ones. I've posted about it before, but have recently re-done the formula. I have carefully tabulated not just wins and losses, but also batting and bowling averages since April 2015 (right after the world cup). Admittedly, my system does throw in a few surprises, but because I have very carefully set the formula, I am prepared to argue for its merits.

The biggest surprise is that as of right now, Zimbabwe are indeed ranked ahead of the West Indies in Test match cricket!

Certainly, my own formula argues against my position that Zimbabwe don't belong in a Test league!

Here are the full rankings according to my table, current as of September 11, 2017:

1. India (17 wins, 2 losses, 6 draws) - 2.505
2. England (17 wins, 16 losses, 5 draws) - 2.456
3. Australia (16 wins, 11 losses, 3 draws) - 2.324
4. Pakistan (11 wins, 10 losses, 2 draws) - 2.265
5. Sri Lanka (11 wins, 12 losses, 1 draw) - 2.262
6. South Africa (9 wins, 9 losses, 7 draws) - 2.224
7. New Zealand (9 wins, 10 losses, 4 draws) - 2.023
8. Bangladesh (3 wins, 7 losses, 4 draws) - 0.812
9. Zimbabwe (0 wins, 5 losses, 0 draws) - 0.514
10. West Indies (4 wins, 15 losses, 4 draws) - 0.486

Some of the basic features of my system:

- wins in alien conditions are given bonuses, while losses at home are penalized
- home wins aren't penalized, but don't get bonuses either
- the margin of victory/defeat is factored
- the opposition's overall, batting, and bowling strength are also factored
- every series is scored from a minimum of 0 points (losing all matches) to 2 points (winning all matches)
- the rating is calculated as weighted average across all matches

India has a tremendous win loss record, but is only marginally ahead of England and Australia because India have won almost exclusively at home.
Sri Lanka are relatively highly ranked due to having beaten a relatively strong Australia side 3-0 just last year.
South Africa are only one or two big series away from the top ranking, but find themselves at 6th because of their mediocre W-L record.
Zimbabwe edged past the Windies on the back of an impressive performance overseas against a relatively strong SL side (who beat the Aussies 3-0).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjtuZBykSzM (Noreaga - Blood Money Part 3)

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