Player Ratings - 2nd Test vs West Indies

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pariah
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Re: Player Ratings - 2nd Test vs West Indies

Post by pariah »

Brendan Taylor and Craig Ervine completely flopped.

Raza and Malcolm refused to bat ahead of you.

Mire was AWOL.

You stepped up twice on short notice.

That has to be a 10?

Hami aside, if you think about it properly, Zimbabwe looked like a an absolute joke in both innings UNTIL Moor came to bat.

I named a future XI and deliberately excluded Moor. That was the first time we saw him bat like that. I don't even think he's batted that way for the A side. I partly think he was spooked by the carnage in the 1st innings and went in feeling partly defeated.

He's booked his spot against SA. It'll be very interesting to see how he bats. it will be interesting to see how he goes in the Logan Cup too meanwhile.

But anyway, I think it's more a case of 9 would be harsh.

Mueddie28
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Re: Player Ratings - 2nd Test vs West Indies

Post by Mueddie28 »

eugene wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:43 pm
I would love have Mawoyo back in the fold but is he match-fit these days?

My Test XI - not particularly happy with the openers, but with no Mire, Mawoyo, Sibanda, etc I am not really sure who to put up there. Toss-up between a W Masakadza and another pace bowler, depending on the conditions.

1. Peter Moor
2. Sikandar Raza
3. Hamilton Masakadza
4. Craig Ervine - what is he good at pace or spin
5. Brendan Taylor - another poor performance by him , then he should be forced to open or at least get the gloves..
7Sean Williams
6Regis Chakabva (w)
8. Graeme Cremer (c)
9. Kyle Jarvis
10. Tendai Chatara
11. Wellington Masakadza /Mumba ?

Kriterion_BD
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Re: Player Ratings - 2nd Test vs West Indies

Post by Kriterion_BD »

pariah wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:16 pm

Hami's ton is a 10/10 for me.

8 out of 10 IMO. He was essentially "dropped" on 15. A mm of shoe, and he would have 20 runs to show for Test across both innings. But he still gets an 8 instead of a 1 because he still had to score another 132 runs (provided he didnt get any more lives).
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Re: Player Ratings - 2nd Test vs West Indies

Post by Conant »

pariah wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:35 pm
10
Moor - Not easy to be told you're facing Roach and Gabriel at that pace, and have to face the challenge of Bishoo and Chase on that wicket, as well as to deal with the discipline of Holder. Unfair to bat at 5 twice after first the number 3 and 4 flop badly, and a 2nd innings when the entire top 4 failed. Facing 400 balls under those conditions is something I doubt statistically many players have ever done, particularly when runs scored still total less than 100. I'd have to check the stats but they'll back up a 10/10 performance.

Hami - Set up the Test match. It wasn't the fact that he scored 147 runs. It was how he did it. He looked by far the best batsman on display from both sides over the 5 days. He was simply brilliant in that innings.

9
Raza - Unexpected returns with the ball. Was magnificent. WI played him very easily after he got his wickets which didn't undo his hard work though. Unlike Moor (as well as BT, Craig and Mire), he was fortunate on both occasions to not really face the seamers at their freshest and had enough time between then and the new ball to settle against the part-timers and WI change bowlers who were rather off the boil. He got MoM, arguably deserves the 10, but i's more a case of things falling into place for him rather than a 10 star performance.

6
Mpofu - Doesn't deserve another cap, but he bowled beautifully, and did deserve to get more than one wicket. Probably the only bowler from either side who never really had a poor spell.

5
Chakabva - Was poor behind the stumps. A reverse of the first Test, but apart from the howlers he kept good. Future leader and number 3 of this side. His batting for the A side has been assured and he's been crazily messed about the order. Stepped up this time around
Chisoro - His selection was a poisoned chalice. His captain had no clue how to use him despite overwhelming evidence available as to how. Could have bagged a few more wickets. Decent performance nonetheless. Doesn't deserve another cap ahead of other options.

4
Cremer - Got zero points for his captaincy, bowling and fielding for obvious reasons. With that in mind it could be argued 4 is actually too much. But his side was in trouble, and with the bat he ensured he was there until the end.

2
Mire - Was always a disaster to begin with. That is down to Taibu and Streak. One of the worst calls as far as selection and strategy for a long time. An investigation as to why he bowled such few overs is necessary. I don't know the full story and his fitness, but I'll put it down to insubordination and unprofessionalism.

1
Craig Ervine - Has never been a number 3 and will never be a number 3. If If he persists in that role his batting average will slide as fast as Holder and Dowrich sent Raza's bowling average back up again. Why he was so nervous is strange. Does he have a fear of genuine express pace? He could perhaps be a sign that this business of top ZIM batsmen batting so low renders them disadvantaged in their future careers when exposed to batting higher and against quality. Surely where he felt uncomfortable you probably expected to see a Chamu, Vusi, Mawoyo and maybe even Matsi coasting.
Taylor - His footwork hasn't been this bad in a long time. It has never been brilliant but it looks like it has gone backwards. back to when he was still a teenager. Few would believe you if you said he's spent the past couple of seasons playing County cricket. He's only 31, but already having the issues Kallis and Ponting had at the backend of their careers. He was tried and he failed in every position for Notts at County Cricket. Him doing well for them in List A but from a lower position not top order suggests that maybe Brendan needs to be more attacking and less circumspect in order to succeed. He had the luxury of Grant tending to him when in truth he didn't need him much, but now he does, desperately. ZIM won't be solving their opening problem soon, and Craig won't be solid enough at 3. Unless Taylor gets some help - and ZIM have no choice but to give it to him considering the financial investment in him - these will be very trying times for Brendan going forward.

0
Malcolm Waller - Hopeless and useless.

My team suggestions:
I doubt they'll be dropping plenty players. I just hope they don't suddenly believe Raza is a bowler they can trust, just like they did with Williams. Moor has nailed down his spot so Kasuza etc will have to wait. It's a question of where he must bat. He asked for Mawoyo's advice. Let him do so while they are together in the middle. Despite people's insistence that I'm crazy, Cremer really isn't a frontline spinner. They've tolerated Malcolm and Sean in the XI, surely he can come in as a number 8 plus operate strictly as a strike bowler in bursts. That is after all what he does in ODIs and T20s. Only bowls when he smells blood so to speak. As things stand he's probably the only Zimbabwean batsman who can and actually will improve. I want Raza to open but that won't happen. Jarvis was brought back to be a strike bowler. Based on what we saw, I don't think he'll be capable of fulfilling that role, nor putting in the shift Mpofu-type put in this Test. With his fitness Chatara will not be able to be a workhorse either but he's still a top wicket-taker. So is he's in the team then it's either as the primary strike bowler or not at all because as good as he is he's not elite good and will be negated and rendered a limping liability. ZIM cannot afford to have a seamer who will put in the hard yards but cannot bat. Right now Jarvis threatens to be the bowler who will pick up one more wicket than Tiripano but be a poorer batsman and lack his stamina. Mashinge is the perfect option.

As always I stand to be corrected, but this is Test cricket and it doesn't take much to get found out.

1Mawoyo, 2Moor, 3Hami, 4Craig, 5Taylor, 6Raza, 7Chakabva(wk), 8Cremer(c), 9Jarvis/Mashinge, 10Chatara, 11Wellington

Wow.. astounded that you gave a white player 10/10, Moor for that matter. :)

All sounds logical; just dont like the fact that you rate Ervine and immediately suggest a replacement /alternative which puts an otherwise logically explained ratings into ulterior motives.
jaybro wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:04 pm
Player ratings very fair probably a bit generous to Hami & Moor but the rest very good

Dont agree with the team selection for RSA though
Why can't Moor and Masakadza deserve a 10/10 rating, especially since ratings are so roundly explained ?

TapsC
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Re: Player Ratings - 2nd Test vs West Indies

Post by TapsC »

I think with Ervine we all realize that he is in our top 3 batsmen. I actually think for test cricket he will absolutely thrive when the ball is soft. Hami will be the perfect number 3 now after having been forced to face tough conditions already opening.

you will actually see that in his best performance against a quality pace attack which was NZ last year he batted at 4 and scored over 140. Raza was at 3.. Tino and Chamu did ok in that test. in Sri Lanka I think Tari batted at number 3.

In South Africa we all know we will be up against a ferocious pace attack. if we play somebody like Mire instead of Mawoyo(who doesn't seem interested) up top there is a good chance he won't last more than 30 balls so we need somebody who doesn't get nervous. trust me the proteas analysts know his weaknesses by now.

pariah
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Re: Player Ratings - 2nd Test vs West Indies

Post by pariah »

Conant wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:40 pm
Wow.. astounded that you gave a white player 10/10, Moor for that matter. :)
That's the problem again. I don't think guys here can even prove from my posts that I discriminate racially.
All sounds logical; just dont like the fact that you rate Ervine and immediately suggest a replacement /alternative which puts an otherwise logically explained ratings into ulterior motives.
Ah that's why Conant the journo would have been a lazy Editor. :lol:

How can a retired Matsi replace Craig?

I was commenting on how weak and frightened he is against a hard/new ball and express pace. Very amateurish. I referred to Matsi, Vusi, Chamu, Mawoyo (forgot Mire), because they are/were effortless against pace while Craig was a true deer in headlights. He won't survive against SA Emerging. He can forget Ngidi and Rabada.

Actually, if Craig, Williams and Malcolm (plus maybe the current Brendan who also struggled in County) played Provincial cricket in SA (not Franchise), I would be very surprised if they average more than 25.

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jaybro
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Re: Player Ratings - 2nd Test vs West Indies

Post by jaybro »

Conant wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:40 pm
jaybro wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:04 pm
Player ratings very fair probably a bit generous to Hami & Moor but the rest very good

Why can't Moor and Masakadza deserve a 10/10 rating, especially since ratings are so roundly explained ?
10/10 is saying the player had a perfect match so I'm a little hesitant to give Hami 10 becuase he failed in the 2nd innings and missed a catch, Hami did get an absolute peach in the 2nd but still I feel a 9 would have been a better rating.

Moor played very well twice in the match coming in @ 3 for not many but scores of 53 & 42 don't get you a 10.

Just to put it into perspective if Hami was to score a century in both innings what rating would he get ? 10 of course

Raza I think deserved a 10 or 9.5 because he scored 80 + in both innings and took 5 for
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jaybro
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Re: Player Ratings - 2nd Test vs West Indies

Post by jaybro »

pariah wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:48 pm


How can a retired Matsi replace Craig?

I was commenting on how weak and frightened he is against a hard/new ball and express pace. Very amateurish. I referred to Matsi, Vusi, Chamu, Mawoyo (forgot Mire), because they are/were effortless against pace while Craig was a true deer in headlights. He won't survive against SA Emerging. He can forget Ngidi and Rabada.

Actually, if Craig, Williams and Malcolm (plus maybe the current Brendan who also struggled in County) played Provincial cricket in SA (not Franchise), I would be very surprised if they average more than 25.
Then why do you have Ervine opening in all your XI's ????

If you think he's a 'true deer in the headlights' why would you open with him?

Fact is you don't think he would be able to face the new ball and you just want him to fail like all the other white players
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Conant
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Re: Player Ratings - 2nd Test vs West Indies

Post by Conant »

jaybro wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:30 pm
Conant wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:40 pm
jaybro wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:04 pm
Player ratings very fair probably a bit generous to Hami & Moor but the rest very good

Why can't Moor and Masakadza deserve a 10/10 rating, especially since ratings are so roundly explained ?
10/10 is saying the player had a perfect match so I'm a little hesitant to give Hami 10 becuase he failed in the 2nd innings and missed a catch, Hami did get an absolute peach in the 2nd but still I feel a 9 would have been a better rating.

Moor played very well twice in the match coming in @ 3 for not many but scores of 53 & 42 don't get you a 10.

Just to put it into perspective if Hami was to score a century in both innings what rating would he get ? 10 of course

Raza I think deserved a 10 or 9.5 because he scored 80 + in both innings and took 5 for
I missed the dropped catch so perhaps you might be right.

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