[MUGABE HAS RESIGNED] Zimbabwe celebrates!

Participate in discussion with your fellow Zimbabwe cricket fans!
pariah
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:27 pm
Supports: Matabeleland Tuskers

Re: [MUGABE HAS RESIGNED] Zimbabwe celebrates!

Post by pariah » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:49 am

TapsC wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:06 am
I actually agree with you when you say the West was verery involved. that is a very plausible theory. I have a friend who works at one of those Western Embassies and he told us that the West was supporting Mnangagwa over a year ago because he had the backing of the military.. we all brushed him aside thinking it was just bar talk but looking at it now there is no way the coup could have taken place without them knowing.

To me the whole world was complicit besides the AU contries who are so quick to defend dictators. China have massive investments in Zim and they have been stalling their investments plans because Mugabe was now becoming a problem to them. Mnangagwa has steong links with China. I mean Mugabe accused him and the army of looting 15 billion with the help of the Chinese.

In the end Mugabe has himself to blame. that's just the honest truth. the army have always been kingmakers in Zimbabwe since the 1970s. Mugabe wasn't the original Zanu leader but the army forcefully put him there through general Mujuru replacing Ndabaningi Sithole. in the 1980s they crushed the only opposition he had in Nkomo and Zapu. 2008 he lost fair and square and the army intervened killing hundreds of people. this in fact means he has been an illegitimate leader for 9 years. the whole region knows that. Thabo Mbeki is even rumoured to have been given a gold mine in Zimbabwe for helping Mugabe stay on with his quiet diplomacy tactics which betrayed the people of Zimbabwe. Jonathan Moyo himself is now openly saying the army intervened in 2008.

So Mugabe thought eliminating General Mujuru would solve the problem yet these guys have been his source of power for his whole rule. why would any of us feel sorry for him then? he clearly overestimated his power and thought he was a demi-god like Mnangagwa said. he lost
You say a lot Taps!

Few corrections, Mugabe, Moyo etc were against the 2008 army violence. Internal army factions is what drove them to get rid of Solomon Mujuru. Conant believes Mujuru had weight, I believe he was a lightweight, only power he had was within army structures and a few Generals. With time Chiwenga and co eroded that base. When you'r eno longer active it's hard to command respect. Chiwenga knew that when he was about to be fired by Mugabe that he had to act, otherwise his replacement would immediately stand by Mugabe and "normalcy" resumes.

I think you need to read up more on the Mugabe, Sithole etc matter. But start from the Chitepo - Tongogara links. But hold your thoughts on that until then.

Nkomo was a sellout. Why did he run to the UK? Remember decades ago he did the exact same thing Mnangagwa did recently - wrote a similar letter too. Those are all textbook Western managed regime change tactics. I personally believe Nkomo wanted to effect a coup with the help of Peter Walls and his filthy buddies plus the Apartheid bastards. Fact that the Brits didn't run with it(violence/force) at the time doesn't mean they weren't keen. They finally did it now - bloodless. But this is the only matter where I differ with Jonathan Moyo because he argues it was false intel spread by the Apartheid Nats which caused Gukurahundi.

Whoever told you about Thabo Mbeki and the gold mine doesn;t know what they are talking about. Mbeki via his wife and brother had already looted SA enough, so no Zimbabwean gold mine could "bribe" him.

A lot of these things don't really need you to get the information from someone else. By putting two and two together - plus removing emotion from it, one can easily see what makes sense or not.

Mnangagwa rose from the Tsholotsho declaration disaster to be Mugabe's Vice President and now a West+ZDF darling. Everything Mnangagwa suffered was with the army's full blessing. Basically, Mnangagwa was so vulnerable and desperate he could be anyone's pony. All the more reason why it makes absolute sense that Chiwenga is the real power in Zimbabwe now. Just as much as Mnangagwa was desperate, so was Chiwenga, but at least he had a tool - loyal chain of command, plus a politician with a bit of weight to head what he was putting in place.

This is why I said ZImbabwe is now a completely useless country because the West is masking judicial and democracy flaws that will never again be addressed nor problems around their existence openly acknowledged, plus they share the pawn(Mnangagwa) with the very army that propped up Mugabe.

Finally, Mugabe was more powerful than the army. Way more powerful. That's the difference. He was just hours away from being restored to the Presidency and the army stood down. SA and Russia(plus SADC and AU) would have seen to it. Mnangagwa on the other hand does not have that leverage, and never will.

In the first few years of Mugabe presidency he was backed by the West so army couldn't tell him anything. After that when Mugabe went against the West (and fertile land-hoarding white section), the whole of Africa (bar Botswana and Senegal West stooges) he was elevated to greatness. Even Kenneth Kaunda(one of the elder statesmen with mandela and Co then) had to tow the line. Same with Olusegun Obasanjo then Nigerian leader whom West successfully got to criticise Mugabe and ZANU initially, but he had to make an about turn. This is precisely why Thabo Mbeki, for his own legacy, could not afford to go against anything Mugabe said/did.

This while thing goes back to:
1. Failure to get rid of Chiwenga swiftly and successfully (hence Jonathan Moyo's fears about all institutions being infiltrated - Chiwenga tipped off and survived). Couldn;t just fire him without holding him to force army to act vilenty to free him if they dared - none of which West etc would have backed.
2. Shameless judiciary
3. West's determination to take the risks with the little- Chiwenga-Judiciary-Mnangagwa window.

Once all of ZANU and Mugabe knew this was the case, then obviously those who supported Mugabe all changed allegiance immediately and sacked him.

Bulawayo Boy
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:26 pm
Supports: Matabeleland Tuskers

Re: [MUGABE HAS RESIGNED] Zimbabwe celebrates!

Post by Bulawayo Boy » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:32 pm

As I said before, and as far as I can tell, this whole thing is just a Zanu PF faction fight.

Only one positive thing has come from this - Mugabe and his wife are gone (sort of).

The negatives are many:
  • True democracy will not be achieved.
    We will now have ANOTHER 20 years of dictatorship - this time with the croc in charge.
    The voters' roll will not be sorted out.
    Nikuv will rig next year's election. Again!
    Investment will NOT suddenly flow in - who in their right mind invests in a racist, tribalist dictatorship where the infrastructure of the country is totally stuffed.
    Finally, and most importantly, the people of Zimbabwe will keep on suffering. There is no quick fix here.
I realise that some of you went out and protested and whilst I commend your bravery I question your intelligence. You can't seriously have believed that things were REALLY going to change. Surely?

Zimbabwe is a cursed land where evil prevails and stalks the corridors of power. There are many people in Zimbabwe who delighted in the Ndebele being massacred in the 1980s. Those same people whom they applauded, turned around and attacked them later - suppressed freedom of the press, beat up the opposition, stole tens of billions of dollars and undertook violent campaigns like Murambatsvina and the 2008 election violence, to say nothing of the destruction of the commercial farming sector, food production, attacks on poor farm workers and the like.

People get the government that they deserve - and the Zimbabwean people, who continually trumpet how "intelligent" they are because they are literate are surely getting the government that they well and truly deserve.

pariah
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:27 pm
Supports: Matabeleland Tuskers

Re: [MUGABE HAS RESIGNED] Zimbabwe celebrates!

Post by pariah » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:08 pm

Bulawayo Boy wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:32 pm
As I said before, and as far as I can tell, this whole thing is just a Zanu PF faction fight.

I realise that some of you went out and protested and whilst I commend your bravery I question your intelligence. You can't seriously have believed that things were REALLY going to change. Surely?

People get the government that they deserve - and the Zimbabwean people, who continually trumpet how "intelligent" they are because they are literate are surely getting the government that they well and truly deserve.
This just kills me even today. I can't quite get my head around the fact that right-minded people actually consciously participated and later celebrated this.
There are many people in Zimbabwe who delighted in the Ndebele being massacred in the 1980s. Those same people whom they applauded, turned around and attacked them later
Sad but true. Very true! I never once met a Shona who had anything bad to say about Mugabe. Today it's hard to find even a single 50 year old Shona man or woman who was/is not against Mugabe(even 35 year old Shona people - 16 when 1998 issues where hot).

Googly
Posts: 4759
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:48 pm

Re: [MUGABE HAS RESIGNED] Zimbabwe celebrates!

Post by Googly » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:32 pm

The march is the turning point in this country. It may not happen over night and there may be bloodshed and some set backs but the genie is out the bottle. I have no doubt that the elections have been doctored already and the opposition is fragmented and disorganized but will Zimbabweans accept the outcome with the same resignation as they’ve done in the past, and what will the various regional and international players do about it?
ED is going to have to pull a rabbit out of the hat economically in the next few months to make a Zanu win even vaguely plausible.

pariah
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:27 pm
Supports: Matabeleland Tuskers

Re: [MUGABE HAS RESIGNED] Zimbabwe celebrates!

Post by pariah » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:52 pm

The stupid thing about your story Googly is a deposit of only us$10 million in comparison to so much at stake. Portion of how much? Even if it's a fifth of a us$50m or a tenth of a us$100m that's stupid. (even worse when you consider someone said Mbeki got a gold mine :lol: ).

Even more laughable "Chiwenga threatening to take Zambia within an hour", while on the other hand people are saying China backed Chiwenga(and Mnangagwa et al). Why would China allow any harm to come to their Zambia???

You honestly think SA would sit by and watch Chinwenga simultaneously destabilise Zimbabwe plus Zambia???

This is a very stupid story. Nothing adds up. Nothing!
Last edited by pariah on Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Googly
Posts: 4759
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:48 pm

Re: [MUGABE HAS RESIGNED] Zimbabwe celebrates!

Post by Googly » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:53 pm

I’d like to know where the pressure came from to allow aliens and the diaspora to vote. Again this vote will be manipulated, but this is a lot of people and virtually all of them are anti the present regime.

Googly
Posts: 4759
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:48 pm

Re: [MUGABE HAS RESIGNED] Zimbabwe celebrates!

Post by Googly » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:55 pm

I took it off because it’s a step too far to post that. It’s fsr from a stupid story. There’s something in it.

pariah
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:27 pm
Supports: Matabeleland Tuskers

Re: [MUGABE HAS RESIGNED] Zimbabwe celebrates!

Post by pariah » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:57 pm

Googly wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:55 pm
I took it off because it’s a step too far to post that. It’s fsr from a stupid story. There’s something in it.
Put it back on again. :D

Googly
Posts: 4759
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:48 pm

Re: [MUGABE HAS RESIGNED] Zimbabwe celebrates!

Post by Googly » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:58 pm

I’m not saying it’s exactly what happened, but there no doubt about the Mossad story. None. Fact.

pariah
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:27 pm
Supports: Matabeleland Tuskers

Re: [MUGABE HAS RESIGNED] Zimbabwe celebrates!

Post by pariah » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:45 pm

Googly wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:58 pm
I’m not saying it’s exactly what happened, but there no doubt about the Mossad story. None. Fact.
You're devaluing Mossad.

They are many things but not that sloppy (or cheap :D ).

Anyway I'll post the rumour myself since you pulled it, so we have context:
https://www.zimeye.net/did-chombo-truly ... eal-story/
Every country with Dictator keeps a certain amount of money in the Central Bank in case of a coup. This money is not touched or used by anybody except on the directive of the President. With Zimbabwe only two days before the coup d’etat, Mugabe had talked with the Israelites (Mosad) that his military would like to make a coup d’etat. They discussed about the cost of hiring snipers and a batallion to counter this. The Israelites sent in a Foward Team to Zimbabwe two days before the coup for reconnaissance purposes, negotiating and signing of the contract. The main aim was to eliminate all the Commanders of the ZDF before the implementation of the coup d’etat. On the day before the coup d’etat, Robert Mugabe summoned Chombo (Minister of Finance) and Mangudya (Reserve Bank Governor). They discussed with Mosad about the costs. The deposit which was charged was US 10 Million. Mangudya was ordered to release the money and give it to Chombo so that they would pay Mosad. Hence the statement by Grace “Kana imi muchiti munogona kupfura nesuwo tinogona kupfura”. She was confident their plan to eliminate Chiwenga, Shiri, Chihuri etc. was going to work. Note if this plan had come to fruitation?

Kudzai Chipanga also knew about the Mosad deal. Like Amai he had all the hopes in it and never thought the Coup d’etat would succeed particularly with the help of Mosad. That is why he was so daring to read his Communiqué at ZANU PF Head Quarters. He was sure Chiwenga and his guys would not withstand Mosad and particularly with the assistance of Lungu who had aggreed to use Zambia as launch pad for Mosad. Mosad had already set up an office and Drone Lounge in Zambia.

Mugabe, Amai, Chombo, Chipanga and Lungu never thought their plan would fail. That’s why Chipanga was even dare enough to challenge the generals.

Back to our story. 10 Million deposit amount was collected and put at Chombo’s residence before the night of the coup d’etat. At the house were Mosad Elite snipers. But everything went suddenly wrong for Mugabe and his team. Mangudya sold out their deal to the Generals. He told them about Mosad and the 10 Million deal. The coup d’etat went on before the 10 Million was expatriated out of Zimbabwe by Mosad. Mosad and the 10 Million were still at Chombo’s residence. The Generals particularly knew the Mosad deal and the 10 million hence the need to raid armed to the tooth. The ZRP body guards at Chombo’s residence exchanged fire with the army. In fact they started firing. They were now under command of Mosad. They thought no one would beat them particularly with the help of the Israelites. At Chombo’s residence 4 ZRP body guards and 10 Mosad Snippers were shot dead. Only one ZNA soldier died. That is why the entry at Chombo’s residence was forceful. When the resistance was crushed the second phase was to find the 10 million. During the exchange of fire between the coup d’etat soldiers and Mosad, Chombo had hidden the bags containing the money in the ceiling. Iye pachake Chombo had no personal money of this magnitude at his house. So when confronted Chombo refused any knowledge of this money. So came the thorough beating. The soldiers knew it was there and Chombo was refusing. Chombo thought they would give him a minor beating and later leave him to enjoy his loot. He was totally wrong. It was not even Chombo who told them that the money was in the ceiling. The gunmen searched the whole house on their own until they found the money. This denial of knowledge of the money warranted more beatings to Chombo according to the gunmen.

Also take note of events: Mugabe refused to resign at the first instance claiming “We have friends” meaning Mosad and Zambian Lunga. After the coup, Lungu had decided to go on with the plan but Chiwenga threatened to take every inch of Zambia within 1 hour. Lungu sat down with his generals who confirmed it as true. They admitted they would not stand Zimbabwean fire power. He tried to ask for assissitance from Botswana and Botswana also refused siting the same shortfalls. When Mugabe was refusing to sign he didnt know about all these outside happenings. When Mugabe was finally shown the battered Chombo and the dead Mosad Snippers he knew totally well that their plan had flopped.

CONCLUSION.
The battle between the generals and Chombo is not stealing money but hiring Mosad to kill them. The battle between Chipanga and the gunmen is not about Corruption! “No no no!” But his knowledge about Mosad and the planned elimination of Generals. Also think about it? Are Chipanga and Chombo the ONLY Criminal elements the Army wanted to weed off ZANU PF? We have nearly a full month now. Are they not able to arrest more? You the Reader. Dont you know about other corrupt officials? Isnt it that the Generals are presently dining with some of them? Iwe. Look at things properly and with an analytic eye. This fight is personal. (Story is First Hand Information given to a Jail Guard by Chombo at his Prison Cell.) True.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jemisi and 11 guests