Zim Schools cricket system is in the gutter: Mangongo

Participate in discussion with your fellow Zimbabwe cricket fans!
User avatar
CrimsonAvenger
Posts: 7762
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:57 am
Supports: Mountaineers
Location: India

Zim Schools cricket system is in the gutter: Mangongo

Post by CrimsonAvenger » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:57 pm

More meaningful Mangongo talk: https://www.wisdenindia.com/cricket-new ... ure/288343
“It’s in the gutter, to be honest.”

That’s how Stephen Mangongo, Zimbabwe’s coach in the Under-19 World Cup, describes his country’s school cricket system. Only five serious cricketing schools, just seven 50-over matches a year, and no multi-day games. With such a system at the grassroots level, talented young cricketers from Zimbabwe are beginning to look for better opportunities in other countries.

“It’s in the gutter,” repeats Mangongo, ahead of their crucial game against India in Tauranga on Friday (January 19).

“The main challenge is our school system, which we always rely on to tap on talent – the level of cricket has gone down, they play just seven 50-over games the whole year. That is it. No two-day or three-day games, nothing. That scenario is not ideal.

“Because of lack of enough cricket, talented youngsters move to South Africa. There, they play a minimum of 50 games in a year. Some play in England for the same reason.”

But over the last year, Zimbabwe have managed to pull back players to their country. The senior team has benefited with Brendan Taylor and Kyle Jarvis returning, while the Under-19 team has had its share of similar cases too.

“They’re still Zimbabweans. It’s our endeavour and vision to identify talent; Hamilton Masakadza and Brendan Taylor are in their mid-30s. They aren’t going to be there for long,” says Mangongo, who has also been the coach of the senior side in the past.

“It’s Zimbabwe Cricket’s duty to identify players now, so that they can graduate to international cricket in the next three-four years. It’s a sustained programme to go into South African schools and identify Zimbabweans. We’ve got Ton Harrison, who was the best offspinner in South Africa but is playing for us now. We’ve got Alistair Frost, who is a batting allrounder from one of the top schools in South Africa, Hilton College. We’ve got Donald Mlambo, based in UK doing his education there. We’ve gone all out to search for any available talented Zimbabwean to be part of the programme.”

According to Mangongo, convincing the young players to return to their roots was easy as it gave them a chance to play for the country’s age-group sides. Sustaining them in the system, though, was a different ball game altogether.

“It’s a massive challenge, we can’t hide that fact. It’s difficult,” he concedes. “A talented cricketer wants to play enough cricket. If they come back and don’t play first-class or for Zimbabwe A, youngsters will look elsewhere. ZC are trying to ensure there’s enough ‘A’ cricket or first-class cricket so that talented youngsters realise their dream. The talent is there, though.

“Look at England, the number of South Africans who play for them, it’s the same with New Zealand. We’ve got (Colin) de Grandhomme from here (Zimbabwe) who plays for New Zealand. Smaller counties like Zimbabwe are up against it, always losing players. We can’t run away from that. We’re doing all we can to ensure talented cricketers come into the U-19 structure. There’s an academy set up run by Tatenda Taibu. So there is a pathway from U-19 to academy, first-class cricket and A-side cricket.”

In such a scenario, Taylor’s return to the system after leaving Zimbabwe following the World Cup 2015 for Nottinghamshire has come as a massive boost.

“It’s a show of confidence,” says Mangongo. “It’s a massive indicator to a lot of youngsters who have grown up idolising and watching Taylor on TV, following him on county cricket in UK. It also tells the youngsters ‘Wow, Brendan is back. It gives me hope to continue playing cricket’. Because if a seasoned player can make a decision to come back and play for Zimbabwe, then the youngsters who want to dream, who want to play cricket seriously in the country, they start to believe in themselves that it can be done.

“Funds, matches being cancelled – players have genuine fears. It becomes a big irritation and worry for any serious cricketer. Their job is to play, evolve and move to the next stage. The stop-start becomes a real threat to serious cricketers but I’m sure Zimbabwe Cricket is trying its level best. Brendan Taylor or Kyle Jarvis wouldn’t come back if cricket in the country wasn’t on a revival path.”

User avatar
Black Mamba
Posts: 677
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:55 am
Supports: Matabeleland Tuskers

Re: Zim Schools cricket system is in the gutter: Mangongo

Post by Black Mamba » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:09 pm

Problems are already known and 100% agree with what he said , but its ridiculous to lash out at the midway of the global event, he should have presented it before the creation of the team in a 2 year juncture after 2016 youth world cup. ZC are busy in managing funds, still not a proper step taken to nurture youth players

tawac
Posts: 1699
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:16 pm
Supports: Mashonaland Eagles
Location: Beitbridge

Re: Zim Schools cricket system is in the gutter: Mangongo

Post by tawac » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:22 pm

Wow this really does put into context the things Googly always says. Only a handful of school teams playing any meaningful cricket. I think the stage is right to be saying these things because people will listen and pay attention. A lot really needs to be done for our cricket to survive. We should be well into our domestic season but no cricket is being played at all. I really think that if we don't make in to the world cup it could be curtains for us.
CHRISTOPHER MPOFU: 'The problem was fear of failure. I used to think that when I played, if I didn't do well in one game, I would lose my place for the next one but now I've let go of that'

ZIMDOGGY
Posts: 3478
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:40 pm
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: Zim Schools cricket system is in the gutter: Mangongo

Post by ZIMDOGGY » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:24 pm

I really hope by now everyone see’s that the Logan cup standard is paltry with 5 teams when the international players are away. It’s a Financial burden and the selectors do not take the tournament serious anymore.

Let’s take it back down to 4, and KEEP the stars in the Comp, however consolidate it to 6/7 genuine talents to develop and fill the rest of the squad with Taylor’s and Tazas and any other players who are banging down the door at clubs.

I am wondering if there is any window of a few months that we can play the entire domestic season in intensely and open up the gates for our players to play and develop overseas...
is there a sweet spot somewhere between SA/AUS/NZ domestic season and the pommy season we can capitalise on???

Also,
Just a thought out loud.
Why do we always think to the white western countries as places to live and play club?

Why do we never talk about players going to India or Sri Lanka, even the Windies, to gain experience ?

Sending a kid to a highish level Indian club Could reap rewards!
Cricinfo profile of the 'James Bond' of cricket:

FULL NAME: Angus James Mackay
BORN: 13 June 1967, Harare
KNOWN AS: Gus Mackay

'The' Gus Mackay.

Hero.
Sportsman.
Artist.
Player.

**
Q. VUSI SIBANDA, WHERE DO YOU HOP?

A. UNDA DA ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE*

User avatar
Black Mamba
Posts: 677
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:55 am
Supports: Matabeleland Tuskers

Re: Zim Schools cricket system is in the gutter: Mangongo

Post by Black Mamba » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:22 pm

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:24 pm
I really hope by now everyone see’s that the Logan cup standard is paltry with 5 teams when the international players are away. It’s a Financial burden and the selectors do not take the tournament serious anymore.

Let’s take it back down to 4, and KEEP the stars in the Comp, however consolidate it to 6/7 genuine talents to develop and fill the rest of the squad with Taylor’s and Tazas and any other players who are banging down the door at clubs.

I am wondering if there is any window of a few months that we can play the entire domestic season in intensely and open up the gates for our players to play and develop overseas...
is there a sweet spot somewhere between SA/AUS/NZ domestic season and the pommy season we can capitalise on???

Also,
Just a thought out loud.
Why do we always think to the white western countries as places to live and play club?

Why do we never talk about players going to India or Sri Lanka, even the Windies, to gain experience ?

Sending a kid to a highish level Indian club Could reap rewards!

Domestic teams doesn't depends on non availability of international players. Domestic cricketers instead needs to show the jill, be competative and perform to move into the international stage and franchise should be strict against the non performers for long time and back a young star.


Reducing teams will be a blunder,better to stop organizing test cricket, as future of Zimbabwe in test is uncertain. Games needs growth instead of being reduced. Even international players of lower ranked teams like Afghanistan, Bangladesh doesn't often take part in domestic cricket but still their games are developing as they are making rooms for the under 19 talents, whereas ZC has simply failed to keep the talent in the country. Rising Stars are showing some hope in catching up the youths. Blessing Muzarabani, Mavuta, Murray are great examples. Five franchise will definately show some competition if the distribution of players take part in proper order, say 20 members squad in each franchise with 5 international experienced players, 5 under 19s ( 2 of them from the next under 19 world cup probables) and rest 10 being domestic cricketers

User avatar
eugene
Posts: 6455
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:31 pm
Supports: Matabeleland Tuskers

Re: Zim Schools cricket system is in the gutter: Mangongo

Post by eugene » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:47 pm

The return of Taylor and Jarvis will hopefully inspire other guys to stick around.
Neil Johnson, Alistair Campbell, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), Grant Flower, Dave Houghton, Guy Whittall, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Ray Price, Eddo Brandes

Googly
Posts: 3537
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:48 pm

Re: Zim Schools cricket system is in the gutter: Mangongo

Post by Googly » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:31 pm

Does anyone know of any non Indians that have played in their FC set up? I’ll guarantee there have been many they have wanted to, but India have a fine exclusion policy.

I don’t think Mangongo is trying to make excuses, he’s making valid comments at the wrong time. Whilst he’s really pulled out the stops to motivate ZC to back his u19 endeavours and nobody else would have pulled this off, he’s made some errors. He’s quick to dislike players and they’re done for if they get on the wrong side of him, I’m not sure we have that luxury. He’s very dictatorial and I don’t think he’s capable of working with anyone who has firm but differing views. His reshuffling of his batting and bowling line ups may well be in frustration, but nothing is going to change, our guys are not as good as the big teams. Also there were 4 guys left behind that were better than their counterparts there, and whilst it probably wouldn’t have made a difference to the outcome, it highlights our selection problems and the diabolical disgrace that is ZC.
Taylor and Jarvis I guarantee are back because they’ve negotiated a sweet package and it has got nothing to do with any optimism about better administration. There’s every chance they will hang up their boots at the end of their deal if our cricket continues it’s downward spiral. There’s actually quite a lot of cohesion in our national side, they know they’re in a fight for our very existence.
The fact that he’s shouting about the shocking state of school cricket is good and he seems to be the only guy that can motivate anyone, but the horse has bolted, it’s going to take a miracle to resurrect junior cricket here, it would be a long process with the right people managing it from top to bottom, and sadly is linked to politics and the economy, much like ZC itself. ZC do not have the personnel to do anything meaningful and the few good guys are on a tight leash and have learnt that genuine enthusiasm gets you nowhere. In fact at junior levels they do a lot more harm than good and most (not all) should be unceremoniously sacked. They’ve dismantled the cricket, as they have the country, and can no longer blame anyone and are looking askance at each other and the penny is slowly dropping that there’s no one to fix it. It’s like giving a kid an expensive toy that he’s been stomping his feet about using for a while, gets given it, breaks it and then hands it back demanding it be fixed.
Everyone is still talking about expanding the base (I need tranquilizers) when the 4-5 schools he mentioned aren’t doing it correctly, if you can’t get good cricket in a handful of schools with money how are you going to get it going in 40 schools with no money and no interest? This is not football that requires an $8 Chinese ball and some flat ground (incidentally we can’t organize that either!). Prove it can be done when you’re monitoring 5 schools then expand the plan. It smacks of communism vs capitalism. You can’t give to the have nots at the expense of the have’s, whole countries have tried unsuccessfully for about a hundred years, you end up in a scenario where there aren’t enough have’s left to fleece, blame or rally against and then you’re at ground zero. We’re there right now across the board, in fact our National side looks ok in comparison to what’s going on below !
The fact is they will never manage 5 schools, they haven’t and they can’t, that’s the sad truth. These 5 schools are short of about 10 decent coaches, let’s see these ZC development coaches make a difference in smart schools with facilities before they send them to kamusha to bring cricket to the people, it’s a complete and utter waste of time and money. It would have worked in the 80’s when 40 schools played cricket and there was genuine interest throughout, that model has gone, we need to consolidate now.
There’s about one ZC hanger-on for each kid that currently plays cricket. They could take the place of the geography teacher that subs for a coach and doesn’t even want to be there. The coaches need coaching! I’ve actually watched a couple of coach coaching sessions, if it wasn’t so sad it would be laughable, the shit is deep and we need a proper restructuring exercise and some real out the box thought processes or it’s the end. I’m not a Doomsdayer as I’m always accused of, but the nursery is empty. Who is replacing 5 of our National guys in a few years time? Even if we stop playing tests and stick with ODI’s we’re going to get properly pumped in the future, at least our current guys can win when the planets align, but that won’t happen in the future, we’re getting worse and worse and everyone else is getting better and better. It’s been proven time and again that you’re not making a great player once he’s 19, they have to be damned good by the time they get to this age, not schoolboy good, but man good, that’s where world cricket is at right now. There’s very few guys that mature late, and that’s certainly not going to happen in our system. I don’t think ZC will ever learn this painful fact, we can count this lesson in decades of lost talent, so when you hear some die hard ZC supporter say “let him go, we’ve got others” you know he doesn’t have a clue about cricket. Their complete lack of investment in our players and in particular the quality ones has come home to roost.

User avatar
CrimsonAvenger
Posts: 7762
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:57 am
Supports: Mountaineers
Location: India

Re: Zim Schools cricket system is in the gutter: Mangongo

Post by CrimsonAvenger » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:44 pm

Googly wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:31 pm
Does anyone know of any non Indians that have played in their FC set up? I’ll guarantee there have been many they have wanted to, but India have a fine exclusion policy.
I vaguely remember Kumble and Srinath, years ago when they were heading the Karnataka State Cricket Association, suggesting in one of the committees of BCCI to allow at most one overseas player in each FC team. No one at BCCI bought that idea.

However, things are more open at the club levels I guess. But I'm not fully aware of any of those rules and regulations. We know for a fact that Admire Manyumwa played club cricket in India sometime back, for example.
Googly wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:31 pm
Whilst he’s really pulled out the stops to motivate ZC to back his u19 endeavours and nobody else would have pulled this off, he’s made some errors. He’s quick to dislike players and they’re done for if they get on the wrong side of him, I’m not sure we have that luxury.
I'd love to see Kohli captaining a side coached by Mangongo. Drama from day 1. I'd rather follow off field stuff with popcorn than what happens on the field if that becomes a reality :lol: :lol:

User avatar
jaybro
Posts: 6382
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:36 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: Zim Schools cricket system is in the gutter: Mangongo

Post by jaybro » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:22 am

The idea of a 3 team plus Stars first class competition will help lift the standard of domestic cricket but it also leaves plenty of players without opportunity to play, you're going to find we lose even more players especially young ones who will struggle for opportunities.

In a perfect world I would like the following -

A Zimbabwe side in South Africa's 3-day provincial competition like Namibia have, fielding no more than 4 national players at a time though.

I would also like to have a 4 team domestic competition but re-introduce the B League as well so we still have a large player pool

I'd also like to see more overseas players to help lift the quality, I remember guys like Compton, Moeen Ali, Rikki Wessels, Paul Horton, Petteni etc playing in Logan Cup Cricket.

And a continuation of the Rising Stars tour to England, I'd be happy for them to be the 4th Domestic side but I would like players to be able to play 2 seasons for the Stars

Money is the key problem to all those ideas so it's just a dream really
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

ZIMDOGGY
Posts: 3478
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:40 pm
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: Zim Schools cricket system is in the gutter: Mangongo

Post by ZIMDOGGY » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:37 am

jaybro wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:22 am
The idea of a 3 team plus Stars first class competition will help lift the standard of domestic cricket but it also leaves plenty of players without opportunity to play, you're going to find we lose even more players especially young ones who will struggle for opportunities.
My argument to that is its all relative.

Zimbabwes cricket population is tiny, very tiny.

The amount of schools that play cricket you can count on two hands.

I think about a year ago I did the maths and there was only about 500 cricketers, from amateur to international in the whole nation.

4 first class teams for 500 people is perfectly fine and reasonable. As it would be for 1000. Even 2000. Id argue 5000 too.

In fact, I would say the pathway to first class in Zimbabwe is the EASIEST of all test playing nations. They cannot complain in those terms. If I lived in zimbabwe today, signed up for a local team, I am one degree away from first class cricket.

The simple fact is this.

If you can not be in the top 70 players in Zimbabwe, you are simply not good enough to be playing first class. You could argue that there are only about 6 players in the country who are. But I'll leave that aside.

If you are good enough but arent getting a go. There is an issue that is beside this, you've upset someone or been blacklisted for some reason.

If I am wrong on those two above, the third option is corrupt or incompetent selectors, which is an easy fix when problem identified.
Cricinfo profile of the 'James Bond' of cricket:

FULL NAME: Angus James Mackay
BORN: 13 June 1967, Harare
KNOWN AS: Gus Mackay

'The' Gus Mackay.

Hero.
Sportsman.
Artist.
Player.

**
Q. VUSI SIBANDA, WHERE DO YOU HOP?

A. UNDA DA ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE*

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Nate666, sam_ahm and 4 guests