Craig Ervine - Debate

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Googly
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Re: Craig Ervine - Debate

Post by Googly »

Burl is a good player. I’m astounded that they took Murray and the other youngster to Bangladesh. To me that sends a message that they’ve made their minds up and there’s no more reshuffling, because those youngsters weren’t ever going to get a game unless someone got injured.
Williams is the big question mark.

Googly
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Re: Craig Ervine - Debate

Post by Googly »

Murray was such a strange inclusion. I think he’s already played a list A game so it makes it difficult for him to try and play cricket elsewhere at any meaningful level, so that would exclude the possibility of “locking him in”.
It would indicate that he’s the keeper in waiting, but he’s certainly not a good enough batsman yet to assume that role. He has the ability for sure, but needs to play quite a few A games and to put in some hard yards, which he hasn’t done too regularly. Sure he pitches up for practice, but I’ve never seen him dedicating time to working on his batting through daily private practice.
As far as I’m aware he’s going back to university in SA soon, which surely takes him out of the mix? He’s got some decisions to make if they want to put him in the squad. He typifies the problems we face because he’s super bright and it’s really a no brainer between a degree and a cricket career. Sure he can do both, but probably not here, so that would mean putting his cricket on hold whilst he studies. I don’t think you can be knocking on the door, take 3 years off, then resume your sport.

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jaybro
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Re: Craig Ervine - Debate

Post by jaybro »

Googly wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:15 am
Well where does Williams fit in? You can’t ignore him. I also think Tari and Burl are knocking on the door. Waller, PJ and Mire have to be on thin ice. It’s a conundrum
Was this for me ?

Either way Williams fits right into the middle order behind Raza or before what ever. For me it’s only the No.7 spot who I can’t decide on and also the third seamer as I’d have Vitori if he’s the same bowler if not I’d stick with Blessing.
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foreignfield
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Re: Craig Ervine - Debate

Post by foreignfield »

Googly wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:30 am
It’s disappointing to have Williams at odds with management, I wonder how he gets along with the team? I would guess Cremer, as captain, would have to go along with him being dropped?
Who knows? But generally one feels that Williams is a likable and popular guy. His problem is more that he seems to be one of those guys who never really grow up. He's been acting like a teenager often enough in the past. These blokes can be irritating in a dressing-room, but more often than not they are "funny one's" in more than one way and while you would want to give them a bollocking you are already laughing at their jokes (an example from a different sport would be Franck Ribery at Bayern Munich--I doubt he's even matured into a teenager yet, but he's beloved by all like you love your silly thirteen year-old nephew). I think "going along" is probably the right way to describe Cremer's role, I can't imagine that it was him going to the management.

TapsC
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Re: Craig Ervine - Debate

Post by TapsC »

jaybro wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:34 am
TapsC wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:46 am


TapsC you talk a lot of sense but do a lot of whinging without throwing up any real solutions apart from Zhuwao who despite being a forum favourite is by all accounts a slogger of club cricket level.

If guys like Ervine, Hami & Mire got found out then what chance would Cephas of had?

We’re 5 games away from the qualifiers do you really think we should be using these games to see if the 10% chance Zhuwao can defy his List A average of 20 into an ODI average of 30 plus? Or should we continue to give Ervine or Mire or Moor ‘more time’ in the middle so once the qualifiers come around they’re match ready?

The time for experiments is over IMO we’ve got the best guys ready to go we need to back them and give them the best possible chance to perform
I have offered 2 solutions in this thread alone. First I said drop him down the order and let's see what happens. Second one was to give him 2 weeks in the nets whilst he works on that flaw. Those are solutions. I'm not just complaining. Not one of them is saying get rid of him.

Are you saying Tari is not a viable option in this team and we must just stick to the 7 playing now?


http://m.espncricinfo.com/zimbabwe/cont ... 33000.html

http://m.espncricinfo.com/zimbabwe/cont ... 96375.html

Let's just look at these 2 careers.

PJ averages 19 after 78 list A games. Yes 78 whole games. 18 in 30 ODIs.

Tari averages 27 after 35 list A games. 29 in 9 ODIs at that scary number 3 position. Half of those games against the same Sri Lankan attack which has claimed Ervine wicket in the exact same manner. Tari has in fact crossed 50 5 times in his list A games.

PJ has crossed 50 four times including one century to his credit but he has played 43 games more. In fact Tari has scored just 289 less list A runs than PJ yet he he has played 43 games less. He would need to average 7 for his next 43 games to reach the levels of mediocrity PJ has. Tari even has a better strike rate than PJ.

Malcolm Waller is a different case because his domestic form is not bad but on all accounts Sean Williams is a better option. The same can't be said for PJ he was in the team because he was the keeper. Why is he there now? Based on what exactly? Wallers offspin against left handed players also makes sense.

Solomon Mire averages 33 in List A games with 9 50s and 4 100s in 58 games. He has won us games. He has in fact scored almost 600 runs more than PJ yet he has played 20 games less. He deserves his place for now. There is nobody better.

Cephas Zhuwao averages 23 from 55 list A games. Not world class but he is actually 29 runs behind PJ yet he has played 23 games less. His strike rate is 92. PJ 62. What exactly makes you think PJ will kick on yet Zhuwao won't. He is left handed too and that would have meant he could have dealt with the left arm spin better and he is in form. Good competition for Mire who currently doesn't have any.

Ryan Burl has a List A average of 32 with 4 50s and 1 century at a better average than PJ. In fact his overall record is better than PJ in List A. He is 366 runs behind PJ yet he has played 43 games less. He would have to average 8 for the next 43 games to reach that level of mediocrity.

Sean Williams. Let's not even compare his record to PJ and Waller.


I'm sure you catch my drift now. If Murray was the reserve keeper then what exactly is PJ doing there? On what merit? Now he is a good first class player I won't deny but he should be nowhere near this format. In fact Regis Chakabva averages 24 in List A games at a better strike rate than PJ.Mutumbami has similar stats. How shocking is that? So yes I'm actually whining and crying for a reason.

If my solutions were not clear before. This is the batting line-up I would try in Afghanistan

Hami
Mire
Tari
BT
Ervine
Williams
Raza

With the reserves being Zhuwao(who can come in place of Ervine for the t20s) Burl and Waller/PJ/Murray fighting for the 3rd spot. Dont really care who gets the nod there.

Ervine looked good playing everything else let's get his confidence up at 5 where his only real worry would be keeping up even though the bowlers won't be as venemous so he can play his sweeps

TapsC
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Re: Craig Ervine - Debate

Post by TapsC »

Don't know how exactly I quoted myself there. Don't know how to fix it but anyway my points don't change

TapsC
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Re: Craig Ervine - Debate

Post by TapsC »

The real question here should what criteria are they using to pick these Guys? Seems like there is no method at all.. can't be stats. But I'm also failing to see how PJ Murray and even Mavuta got picked here.

If Murray goes back to Uni then that would be scandalous.. a complete waste of a spot given our pressing circumstances

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jaybro
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Re: Craig Ervine - Debate

Post by jaybro »

Don’t remember saying PJ was a better option than Burl, Williams or Tari you might need to have another look Taps

Streak likes Moor because he’s a good team man and a fighter plus his late order hitting, personally I’d rather have Burl in the XI but the 7 role lends itself to either Moor or Waller more.

Tari is hopelessly out of form he has zero 50 plus scores this domestic season that’s why he ain’t in the squad at the moment, a decent score or two against Kenya probably has him on the plane to Dubai though

Trust me Zhuwao ain’t the answer
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Googly
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Re: Craig Ervine - Debate

Post by Googly »

Ya you make sense Jay

Googly
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Re: Craig Ervine - Debate

Post by Googly »

So do you Taps, interesting stats. Zhuwayo is a similar player to Solly but nowhere near as good and never will be. I’d like to see Burl and Williams get a run, it would have to be at the expense of Malcolm and PJ. Waller and PJ are team players, their two replacements less so.

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