Patience Please

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jaybro
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Re: Patience Please

Post by jaybro »

zimfan1 wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:22 pm

Think Prince maybe worth another look as he seems to have come on a lot as a player in the last 2 years.
Maybe but again he hasn't demanded selection

List Average of 27.5 10 fifty plus scores no hundreds over 62 games strike rate under 70 http://www.espncricinfo.com/zimbabwe/co ... 32442.html

The recent Kenya tour he scored a 69, 16* and a duck

The UAE tour he topped the charts with 182 runs @ 45.5 with two fifties http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... ;type=tour

The most recent Pro50 season he actually had a fairly poor season averaging 22 whilst Waller actually topped the charts http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... tournament

In our current situation having a side on the 'older side' of things it makes more sense to stick with Burl & Tari or go for Mutombodzi because they have time on their side. It's not that Prince is too old but for what his output is I think the younger guys are the way to go. If he were to start putting out big numbers and 'demanding selection' I'd have no problem putting him in. At 29 we could get 4-5 good years out of him but Im yet to be convinced.

If I were Prince I'd concentrate on the longer form of the game and start opening for the Rhinos; there's clearly still one spot left for an opener and he has shown he has that 'Tino Mawoyo' style and grittiness to succeed.
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zimbos_05
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Re: Patience Please

Post by zimbos_05 »

I agree that we need patience, however there is some things here. At the level we play at, patience is not something we can have in abundance, at least not as fans.

Unfortunately, Zim does not seem to have a proper programme to blood younger players. They are thrown in to the deep end and expected to perform. We also do not have a proper structure and coaching standard for when they do come in. When a player fails, there is no structure or idea on how to get them to fix the problem, and they seem to come out the next game doing the same mistakes.

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The Robot
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Re: Patience Please

Post by The Robot »

Take 10 years, these players will still fail, they are club standard players unfit for international level.
Robo to rule :oops:

Googly
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Re: Patience Please

Post by Googly »

zimfan1 wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:40 pm
I feel the selection of Waller is an insult to every domestic player grafting away for peanuts.

Please just no more.
That’s unfair since he does better than practically everyone in the domestic league. It’s a strange game in that some players can do moderately well at lower level but can do better at a higher level, or you can have another player that does well at a lower level but can’t feature beyond that, like they’ve maxed out. It becomes a different game at the highest levels and mental strength plays a massive part.
Our problems are huge at every level. You’re not going to manufacture a good player unless he was an exceptional schoolboy. For me it begins and ends there, and out of 20 exceptional schoolboys you might find a couple that will make it. In the past we’ve had quite a few, but it’s thin now. I haven’t seen a schoolboy churn out regular hundreds for many years, and if you can’t do that against the pish opposition here you’ve got fuck all chance, ever.
Our club cricket is so shite (when they occasionally play) that it cannot prepare a player for our FC. Our FC is so shite it cannot possibly prepare a player for International cricket, so what they’re doing is picking players that they think can maybe cope at the highest level. It’s not that hard to see who they are, but it’s clearly no guarantee that they’ve got the goods. I honestly believe that if you could put a Privthi Shaw or a Gill in our system at the age of 15 you’d be condemning them to mediocrity.

Googly
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Re: Patience Please

Post by Googly »

zimfan1 wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:40 pm
I feel the selection of Waller is an insult to every domestic player grafting away for peanuts.

Please just no more.
I’d like to know how hard they’re grafting away?
With so few games ever being played what are they doing exactly? Few FC players turn out for the few Club games that are played because they think a 12 game game FC season is perhaps too much cricket.
If they’re not hitting between 200-400 balls a day 5 days a week they’re not grafting, they’re wasting their time. Firstly they need someone good enough to give them the throwdowns who’s prepared to do it, they need a coach to make sure they’re not grooving bad shit and they probably need access to bowling machines a couple of times a week- there aren’t many of those around either!
If a player follows this regime in our system he’s going to average more than 16-23 that we keep seeing.

Googly
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Re: Patience Please

Post by Googly »

I’ve watched so much age group provincial and county cricket over the years, and seen the extra coaching and time and effort the really good youngsters put in and we are light years behind here. We do nothing. The couple of exceptional T20 festivals and the extra games the schools arrange (taking it from an 8 game year to a 10 game year) are, in the greater scheme of things, completely meaningless. There are barely any age group tours, and when there are the 3-5 net sessions prior to the tour don’t make much difference, but are better than nothing.
We have to have ongoing coaching for the few kids that are any good throughout the year and they need to combine age groups and play some games. We’re at half term now and there are no more scheduled games for the rest of the term at any of the schools, it’s disgraceful. It’s a perfect opportunity right now for ZC to step in, of course they won’t because their hands are full trying to get their mitts on the money allocated for the qualifiers, but in any other year they still don’t.
This RS thing is fantastic in that it gives decent kids an opportunity to break into our system, but I keep telling people that most of them aren’t good enough to begin with. If we sort out the age group stuff below that it’s going to make a massive difference, not only to the quality of the RS but it just gives the kids something to shoot for, for years the good players do a bit extra but for what? There’s no prize at the end of it other than in your last year of school when there’s an u19 WC where you’ll probably be fucked over by a crooked selector and then all you’re really going to do is go and see how good the superstars really are, it’s a reality check when you see where you’re really at. I spoke to one of the u19 boys the other day who has aspirations of being a professional and it was not good to see the disillusionment, in fact I think he’s going to make sure he goes to university and cricket will become secondary. And he’s 100% correct- that’s the sad part.

TapsC
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Re: Patience Please

Post by TapsC »

The problem is how motivated are you to hit 400 balls a day for 200 dollars a month? When you look up top you see the same failures getting picked. Fine Waller does better than most guys but if you are a Forster Mutizwa who is in his 30s and you average 39.5 in the domestic structures how motivated are you when you have one of the best domestic seasons of your career but don't get a sniff anywhere? Is he still supposed to hit 400 balls a day? Malcolm Waller is picked because he does well domestically right? Then how on earth has he played 14 tests and Mutizwa has played one yet Mutizwa averages more,has more 50s and more hundreds. That is the insult that is being spoken about.

Mutombodzi scored 565 runs in 6 Logan cup games but will probably get no reward for it. Zhuwao over 600 runs, he destroys Kenya in a series where players who are in the national team(Burl and Tari) are struggling but he gets nothing for it.these guys cannot be expected to wake up and play their hearts out every day if they can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. It's not like we are winning games. What do you lose by trying other people? Look at that new Afghanistan spinner. Mujeeb I think is his name. They saw the talent. He was in red hot form. They picked and he did well against us and is straight into the squad at 16 years old(allegedly). Zhuwao is in the form of his life and we don't even give him a sniff. In fact to make it more of an insult we bring a kid with no experience to Bangladesh only for him to most probably go back to uni. How do you think domestic performers feel after that?

The Robot and Black Mamba have pointed out 1 thing about our players which is very true. The likes of Chibhabha Zhuwao etc will absolutely destroy smaller teams but will struggle against the big teams. Well here is the interesting part. In our group we have Nepal Scotland and Hong Kong I think. Those are the exact small teams you will see Chamu and Zhuwao destroying but somehow Tari or Burl will struggle. It's maturity/experience I guess. I would have actually not picked the 2 kids if we are going with a policy of not taking chances against the associates. I'm telling you one of those 3 teams would be absolutely ripped apart by a Mire/Zhuwao combo up top. NRR can easily come into play here but you are going to see us strolling to a target of 210 in 45 overs. We need to absolutely destroy those 3 teams for us to stand a chance. Afghanistan are going to take the guns blazing approach against them. Just watch.

TapsC
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Re: Patience Please

Post by TapsC »

Form can easily make someone play way above their capabilities. Just look at how ordinary Mire looks these days but when he was in red hot form Streak described him as our own David Warner. Malcolm Waller in form is dangerous but look at how terrible he is looking now. A player of Zhuwao's hitting ability in form should be straight in the squad. The kind of form he is in can be game changing. That century against Kenya was spectacular. Have we ever seen anything like that from any of our current guys against any kind of opposition? Maybe Hamis 160 odd in that t20..You can't just ignore that. Funny thing about that t20 tournament is that Zhuwao led the eagles I think to victory against a Hami in red hot form but still was overlooked for Vusi for that World Cup. The man has suffered

TapsC
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Re: Patience Please

Post by TapsC »

As for the kids. Cricket is not a priority sport in schools. That's just the reality. Having been in high school in Zim myself I know that Rugby Basketball Athletics and Football are bigger than cricket at schoolboy level. The lack of focus creates situations where these guys are playing multiple sports. You also find that most of the cricket guys play rugby/hockey as well. There is no direct focus. Musakanda himself was a rugby star and good at multiple sports. Imagine if he had just been playing cricket only from a young age. He would have been a star by now. This significantly affects our chances. We lose so many guys to other sports.

The cricket season is basically 1 term because after half term now they focus on athletics if I remember correctly although other sports do take place.. Second term is rugby/hockey season. Third term is cricket/basketball for half a term then it's swimming season and exam time. Water polo is also big for the white kids. Basically the talented pool is spilt so many ways.

I think Mangongo' s 2 year u19 programme is a step in the right direction. That is more cricket than was ever played by these boys at that age. In the end they were in a group with the 2 finalists. Wesley Madhevere is my case study to see how exposure to a lot cricket aids development. The boy has played a lot. U19. Club cricket. Scholarship to S.A.. I hope he joins the next 2 year programme as I think he might just be eligible to play again in the next world cup. Then hopefully he will join the rising stars. He is a guy we can monitor over the years

Googly
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Re: Patience Please

Post by Googly »

Those are valid observations about Mutombodzi, Zhuwao and Mtizwa, they’re all decent players and most certainly deserve a chance. I have no doubt they will probably get a go after these qualifiers if we don’t make the cut. Obviously that’s small reward and possibly too little too late. ZC have never paid too much attention to disgruntled rumblings in the past, but this one has a racial undertone, which always makes people pay attention.

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