ICC WORLD CUP QUALIFIERS 2018 : Super Six Stage

Participate in discussion with your fellow Zimbabwe cricket fans!
PSR
Posts: 801
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:27 pm
Supports: MidWest Rhinos
Location: India

Re: ICC WORLD CUP QUALIFIERS 2018 : Super Six Stage

Post by PSR »

firebreaker wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:15 pm
It seems like it will be one of WI/Afghanistan qualifying
Afghanistan???

No way dude

User avatar
eugene
Posts: 7653
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:31 pm
Supports: Matabeleland Tuskers

Re: ICC WORLD CUP QUALIFIERS 2018 : Super Six Stage

Post by eugene »

And the ICC have announced that any tied matches in the Super Sixes will be decided with a Super Over.
Neil Johnson, Alistair Campbell, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), Grant Flower, Dave Houghton, Guy Whittall, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Ray Price, Eddo Brandes

jimbo
Posts: 1450
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:30 pm

Re: ICC WORLD CUP QUALIFIERS 2018 : Super Six Stage

Post by jimbo »

Zimbabwe were lucky both Afghanistan and Scotland got white line fever. we could have been going into the super sixes with no points. 3 is great from our perspective
Hard work starts now though
Pick 8 batsmen
Bowl first at Harare ( toss dependent)

User avatar
jaybro
Posts: 10390
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:36 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: ICC WORLD CUP QUALIFIERS 2018 : Super Six Stage

Post by jaybro »

See this is what I was talking about it being unfair with the ‘Carry over points’ from the Group stage to the super sixes. Afghanistan have not been ‘disadvantaged’ at all from losing to Hong Kong, we won 3 and tied 1 but are only 3 points ahead of Afghanistan who have only beaten Nepal.

I said this was an issue and now it’s happened and of course Afghanistan have been the benefactors, if we lose our first game to the Windies and they win their first they’re just 1 point behind us!!!!
Chairman of the Neville Madziva fan Club

Originator of the #mumbamania movement

User avatar
Andybligzz
Posts: 769
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:07 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: ICC WORLD CUP QUALIFIERS 2018 : Super Six Stage

Post by Andybligzz »

jaybro wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:25 pm
See this is what I was talking about it being unfair with the ‘Carry over points’ from the Group stage to the super sixes. Afghanistan have not been ‘disadvantaged’ at all from losing to Hong Kong, we won 3 and tied 1 but are only 3 points ahead of Afghanistan who have only beaten Nepal.

I said this was an issue and now it’s happened and of course Afghanistan have been the benefactors, if we lose our first game to the Windies and they win their first they’re just 1 point behind us!!!!
Yeh it’s absolutely bullshit
The Zimbabwe Cricket team have found Ebola in one of their members, but they're not concerned because they have also found Ebatsmen and Efielda!

Kriterion_BD
Posts: 7035
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: ICC WORLD CUP QUALIFIERS 2018 : Super Six Stage

Post by Kriterion_BD »

jaybro wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:25 pm
See this is what I was talking about it being unfair with the ‘Carry over points’ from the Group stage to the super sixes. Afghanistan have not been ‘disadvantaged’ at all from losing to Hong Kong, we won 3 and tied 1 but are only 3 points ahead of Afghanistan who have only beaten Nepal.

I said this was an issue and now it’s happened and of course Afghanistan have been the benefactors, if we lose our first game to the Windies and they win their first they’re just 1 point behind us!!!!
That is true, but there's still the backup of NRR in case you're tied on points. In such tournaments its unlikely AFG would lose to HK or Nepal and still somehow equal ZIM on points unless ZIM also lost a bunch of games. As it is, AFG are a whopping 3 points behind.

3 points is actually a lot. That is 1 and a half wins. ZIM are 1.5 games ahead of AFG in a stage where there are only a total of 3 games. Its almost impossible for AFG to qualify. They simply aren't going to make it, unless they win 3 games on the trot, and then you'd have to say they earned it fair and square. West Indies and Ireland are two very good sides and if you can win 2 in 2 against them, you deserve to qualify IMO. Very fair in my opinion when you consider the overall context as well. Two of ZIM's wins have come at a combined margin of 2 runs. Thats basically an edge that squirts through the WK's legs. Its fair, because when points are tied, its down to net run rate. So even if you're gyped with the points, there is nothing stopping you from going for a higher NRR. Especially with an opening pair selected just for that purpose.

With a 4 game group phase not interrupted by rain, the 6 best sides qualifed at the end of the day. The longer the tournament, the less likely it is for any team to win or lose on a fluke. Look at Pakistan winning the Champions Trophy...they basically only had to beat 2 tough opponents to win the Cup (SL are in piss poor form, and SA would choke swallowing imaginary air). So far this tournament, apart from the West Indies and Ireland, all of the teams have looked unworthy of qualifcation at one time or another. But on the whole, you'd have to say the 5 best sides for sure made it. Only team that might consider themselves unlucky are Netherlands, losing out to UAE. But again, the Dutch have only themselves for not winning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjtuZBykSzM (Noreaga - Blood Money Part 3)

User avatar
jaybro
Posts: 10390
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:36 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: ICC WORLD CUP QUALIFIERS 2018 : Super Six Stage

Post by jaybro »

Doesn’t matter which way you look at it Kriterion it would be fairer to just carry over all points to supersixes
Chairman of the Neville Madziva fan Club

Originator of the #mumbamania movement

Kriterion_BD
Posts: 7035
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: ICC WORLD CUP QUALIFIERS 2018 : Super Six Stage

Post by Kriterion_BD »

jaybro wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:35 pm
Doesn’t matter which way you look at it Kriterion it would be fairer to just carry over all points to supersixes
Maybe, but I'm not so sure. The most important thing is that the ICC has always been doing this. Are you suggesting that previous World Cups or Champions Trophies are invalid in terms of determining the champion due to this design flaw in the tournament? It might not be a perfect design, but I can understand the logic in it.

Suppose two teams are playing in the World Cup final. Lets use the last one for an example. Australia beat New Zealand. But New Zealand had beaten Australia in the group stages. If all results are always carried over, the 2015 WC should have ended as a draw/tie with AUS and NZ both co-champions. AUS and NZ split their head to heads 1-1 and they were the only 2 teams still standing in the end, so why isn't it fair to say they are equal champs? Because thats just silly. the final is accepted as winner takes all.

The Super 6 stage of ICC tournaments, is a overlapped secondary group stage. In effect it saves the number of games and thereby time and costs.

Afghanistan are entering the Super 6 stage with a 4 point disadvantage relative to table toppers West Indies because they didn't win any Super 6 games. How is that anything but fair?

If Afghanistan wins every game from here, they have a total of 4 wins from 7 games, and 6 points. Correct? If Zimbabwe wins 1 more game, and ties another, they have 6 points and they would have won 4 games too (Nepal, Afghanistan, Hong Kong, Super 6 win). Both teams have 4 wins from 7 games and are equal on points, and would be separated on NRR. How is that not fair?

What if Nepal says they should have their points from all the games they won in WCL Division 2 last month because every WCL tournament is part of a single Qualifier system? Its a pandora's box. Canada, Kenya, and now Hong Kong are eliminated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjtuZBykSzM (Noreaga - Blood Money Part 3)

User avatar
jaybro
Posts: 10390
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:36 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: ICC WORLD CUP QUALIFIERS 2018 : Super Six Stage

Post by jaybro »

That point about the Aus v NZ final is stupid Kriterion and has no substance. That World Cup didn’t have a super 6’s format it had a Group then knock out stage.

Even in a tournament with a super sixes stage once you’re in knockout mode points are irrelevant but in the super 6’s stage points are still relevant !!!

Point stands that Zimbabwe & Scotland have had zero benefit over Afghanistan from beating Hong Kong
Chairman of the Neville Madziva fan Club

Originator of the #mumbamania movement

Kriterion_BD
Posts: 7035
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: ICC WORLD CUP QUALIFIERS 2018 : Super Six Stage

Post by Kriterion_BD »

jaybro wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:56 am

Point stands that Zimbabwe & Scotland have had zero benefit over Afghanistan from beating Hong Kong
True, but the group stage has shown that there is literally essentially nothing seperating ZIM, SCO, and AFG. The games have all been fairly close. Scotland and ZIM tied, ZIM and AFG was only a 2 run margin, and SCO and AFG got down to the last 20 balls. If anyone of them qualifies without washouts, then whichever team qualifies fully deserves it.

There have been Super 6s or 8s in the 2007, 2003, 1999 world cups. They've all had the same structure and format. I think its a bit over the top to suggest that results may be invalid. Quirky, sure, but not invalid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjtuZBykSzM (Noreaga - Blood Money Part 3)

Post Reply