Mangongo demands $400,000 in compensation, gratuity included

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TapsC
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Re: Mangongo demands $400,000 in compensation, gratuity included

Post by TapsC »

jaybro wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 10:24 am
TapsC wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:23 am
jaybro wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 4:16 am


But you're happy to see Streaky and Taibu kicked to the curb ???
You cant compare 30 years to 2. I never even wanted Streak and Taibu to be gone forever anyway. I mentioned that I felt that we needed a bigger selection panel and also a new head coach but Streak to be the bowling coach.

The truth is Streak and Taibu are so loved here that people think they did absolutely no wrong. Thats what I disagree with. Everybody else can be criticized besides them.

The Mangongo sacking rumours surfaced before the qualifiers and nobody cared. Makhaya was sacked and nobody wanted to hear his side of the story. Streak even commented after the whole qualifiers mess that he felt that Makhaya " was not able to do the job as needed" and thats why he was let go. Whatmore was fired in a similar fashion and nobody cared.

These guys will continue burning people. We must keep the same energy for all situations and not just defend when its national heroes.

Even when it comes down to these salaries, national players must also have everybody else's back. If people always fight for themselves only , they will never beat these guys.

Remember when the domestic players led a strike and declared early in a game after the national players had been paid and they were only given half of what they had been promised? Sean Williams even opened in one of the innings. This was 18 months ago

http://www.espncricinfo.com/zimbabwe/co ... 73514.html

This is why you probably find these guys are playing on despite what's going on with the national team players.
Ummm I’m pretty sure Streak has given more than “ 2 years” to Zimbabwe Cricket buddy, he’s been serving the game longer than you’ve been alive I dare say.

Mongongo has been coach of the 19’s for a while mate two world cups and the side hasn’t done anything really so to say he didn’t deserve to get sacked but Streak did is double standards

You’ve played your cards young fella easy to see where you sit
I dont even want to be petty and compare them but Mangongo lost to the 2 finalists of the u19 world cup at the actual world cup and Streak lost to the UAE (their first win against a full member) drew against Scotland (Scotland beat a full member for the first time under Streaks watch last year) and scraped past Afghanistan(who almost whitewashed us a few months before) in the qualifiers. The previous u19 World Cup Mangongo was knocked out controversially by the winners of the tournament after the controversial mankad incident. And they even went on to beat the SA u19s. There are no double standards there if you actually look at both scenarios fairly.

And remember how you said you shouldnt fire unless there is alternative solution ? You said no way ZC could replace Streak with a better coach? Well they actually did in the interim. Who knows youth cricket better than Mangongo? He has anger issues but nobody is perfect and I know that.

Im not going to suggest he did a perfect job like you seem to think of Streak and Taibu yet we were losing to Afghanistan Scotland the UAE and the Netherlands. All of this is forgotten because they beat Sri Lanka. Dont forget in 2014 Mangongo beat Australia for the first time in 30 years and still got sacked.

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Re: Mangongo demands $400,000 in compensation, gratuity included

Post by Googly »

Utseya hit the winning runs as I recall.

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Re: Mangongo demands $400,000 in compensation, gratuity included

Post by jimmylesaint »

Mangongo shouldn't have been fired. He is in the best place to serve in cricket for now. Streak shouldn't have been fired he was overall bringing pride back to our cricket.
Mangongo's fate hung in the balance on whether Zim got into the WC. If we had, Stephen would have kept his job(otherwise fired soon after the U19 WC)
BUT as ZC now fired Streak for performance issues they had no choice but to fire Mangongo as well.
Either way ZC board have run out of friends and now must reap what they have sowed for 10years.

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eugene
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Re: Mangongo demands $400,000 in compensation, gratuity included

Post by eugene »

Mangongo is one of the few who actually cares about cricket and not just feeding at the trough.
Neil Johnson, Alistair Campbell, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), Grant Flower, Dave Houghton, Guy Whittall, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Ray Price, Eddo Brandes

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jaybro
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Re: Mangongo demands $400,000 in compensation, gratuity included

Post by jaybro »

TapsC wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 12:14 pm


I dont even want to be petty and compare them but Mangongo lost to the 2 finalists of the u19 world cup at the actual world cup and Streak lost to the UAE (their first win against a full member) drew against Scotland (Scotland beat a full member for the first time under Streaks watch last year) and scraped past Afghanistan(who almost whitewashed us a few months before) in the qualifiers. The previous u19 World Cup Mangongo was knocked out controversially by the winners of the tournament after the controversial mankad incident. And they even went on to beat the SA u19s. There are no double standards there if you actually look at both scenarios fairly.

And remember how you said you shouldnt fire unless there is alternative solution ? You said no way ZC could replace Streak with a better coach? Well they actually did in the interim. Who knows youth cricket better than Mangongo? He has anger issues but nobody is perfect and I know that.

Im not going to suggest he did a perfect job like you seem to think of Streak and Taibu yet we were losing to Afghanistan Scotland the UAE and the Netherlands. All of this is forgotten because they beat Sri Lanka. Dont forget in 2014 Mangongo beat Australia for the first time in 30 years and still got sacked.
Hahah I liked the " Well they actually did in the interim" lol lets hope it's a full time gig yeah?? Also I'm curious to see how well the coach does at bringing back the cream of Zimbabwe's cricketing talent like Byrom, Welch, Hooper etc. See it's not just about being a coach but it's the connections and relationships Streak has within Zimbabwe that still make him the best candidate to coach Zimbabwe.

Comparing Streak to Mongongo isn't really fair and although you were happy to bring up Streak's failures you weren't able to bring up any great achievements Mongongo's 19's side made, instead the best bits you could find were that "his sides got beaten both times by the finalists"

Anyways I actually didn't think Mongongo should be sacked either in fact I wouldn't have sacked any of the poor guys who got punted tbh I was just happily pointing out your biased views that Mongongo has been a great servant for Zimbabwe so he didn't deserve to be sacked whilst Streak has 'only given two years' to Zimbabwe and deserved to be sacked

Yes I am always happy to point out under Streak we beat Sri Lanka because its the ONLY FUCKING ACHIEVEMENT Zimbabwe has had in recent times.

According to you losing to Australia and India at the Under 19's world cup is better though :roll: :roll: :roll:
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TapsC
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Re: Mangongo demands $400,000 in compensation, gratuity included

Post by TapsC »

As I said before I didnt want him Streak and Taibu to be tossed away. I wanted them reassigned. Very big difference.

Mangongo beat SA at u19 level. That is an achievement. His job is a lot harder too. Coaching kids is a much more complicated process. The truth is Mangongo beat who he was expected to beat and lost to who he was expected to lose to in the actual tournaments. The same cannot be said about the national team who were even playing at home with thousands of people cheering them on . There is no way around that.

Also could Gary Brent not do the Job of bringing people back? He did apply to be the bowling coach. Lets see what happens.

The legal cases here are very different and thats why I said you cant compare 30 to 2. I was talking about the dynamics of the legal cases. Of course Streak has given us his whole life. Streaky will still get 100k for his work and hopefully Mangongo gets his money. Our real enemy of progress is still the same and they must pay or leave

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jaybro
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Re: Mangongo demands $400,000 in compensation, gratuity included

Post by jaybro »

TapsC wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 7:45 am
As I said before I didnt want him Streak and Taibu to be tossed away. I wanted them reassigned. Very big difference.

Mangongo beat SA at u19 level. That is an achievement. His job is a lot harder too. Coaching kids is a much more complicated process. The truth is Mangongo beat who he was expected to beat and lost to who he was expected to lose to in the actual tournaments. The same cannot be said about the national team who were even playing at home with thousands of people cheering them on . There is no way around that.

Also could Gary Brent not do the Job of bringing people back? He did apply to be the bowling coach. Lets see what happens.

The legal cases here are very different and thats why I said you cant compare 30 to 2. I was talking about the dynamics of the legal cases. Of course Streak has given us his whole life. Streaky will still get 100k for his work and hopefully Mangongo gets his money. Our real enemy of progress is still the same and they must pay or leave
As I’ve said before the idea to ask Streak to go from head coach to bowling coach was fanciful, he was never going to take a demotion after already taking multiple pay cuts.

That South African side lost to Namibia as well mate no big deal beating them, one off victories aren’t really worth much anyways.

Comparing coaching the kids to the national players is interesting and I’d actually argue it would be easier coaching the younger guys for the following reasons

The difference in quality gets bigger the older the players get due to more professional training

Players tend to leave Zimbabwe after the under 19 WC, Mangongo would still have had the ‘pick of the bunch’

Zimbabwe’s under 19 side had a lot of lead up games to the World Cup, which is probably the main reason why Mangongo got sacked because of all the funds out into the side and they still didn’t qualify for the knockout stages.

Same reason Streak and co got sacked because ZC I bested the money and the results didn’t come, in the end guys like Streak and Mangongo can only work with what they had and the results they produced were on par with what others had done in recent times. ZC need to realise it’s the system not the coaches.

Again I’ll say the only real great achievement in the last 10 years for ZC was the Sri Lanka series win. A couple of home ODI series wins over BD and a few tests here and there but as I said one off wins don’t mean that much.
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Re: Mangongo demands $400,000 in compensation, gratuity included

Post by TapsC »

Discrediting the SA victory would also be the same as me saying that was the worst Sri Lankan side in years. We all know that.

I actually love how you brought up the issue of having the best players available. Streak had on paper the most experienced side in that tournament and on paper a team that could only be matched by the west indies. Yet they lost to the UAE in what was their first victory over a test nation. He had Taylor(the top run scorer)and Jarvis available. Raza won player of the tournament. We had enough firepower to qualify. We were playing in our own backyard.

Mangongo did not in fact have the best u19 team available over the last 2 world cups. Kids are being picked up earlier than ever. That might have been true 10 years ago. In the last 2 world cups where was nick welch? Ed Byrom never played at an u19 world cup for us. Sam Curran played for England. Those are probably the top 3 talents we have at that level. They played for Zim at younger age groups but left after. So that argument is invalid. All the money was spent instead to bring back Mire Taylor and Jarvis in order for the national team to qualify for the world cup.

Also you have to understand serious coaching starts at a very young age for the kids in England Australia South Africa India etc. For Zimbabwe serious coaching only starts at maybe age 15. Googly always stresses how English schools have better facilities than our national team. How do you expect Zim kids to compete. People have to understand that the 2004 and 2006 zim u19 teams were actually a golden generation themselves. They were the exception not the rule. Look at how with no decent youth facilities the teams follwing them have struggled.

Remember the u19 team touring India to some academy we had never heard of before and absolutely getting pumped there? That academy was good enough for the rising stars to be offered a gig there. This is some state academy for the kids. Those are facilities im talking about

You just simply cannot put Mangongo's failure on the same level as Streak. No matter the bias. If we had been losing to associate u19 teams then yes. The only thing that was similar is that ZC actually pumped money into both causes. You cant tell me you expected Mangongo to beat India and Australia. Thats ridiculous. He is foolish for allegedly promising a semi final finish and the board is even more foolish to have believed him. As for World Cup Qualification at HOME. That was not a foolish dream

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jaybro
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Re: Mangongo demands $400,000 in compensation, gratuity included

Post by jaybro »

You're getting like your mate Hhm trying to drown me with a thousand words

I'll just stat the facts -

Streak coached Zimbabwe to a series win over a Test playing nation Sri Lanka ( the same Sri Lanka who beat Bangladesh in Bangladesh ) despite the failings against Scotland and UAE I feel this achievement should of at least given him so more time as coach, as I pointed out since we qualified for the super 6's in 2003 ( which was more good luck than anything ) we have achieved fuck all.

Mangongo coached the Under 19's to 10th and 11th place finishes

You're very short sighted TapsC you can never see the big picture, my comment about the senior players leaving is not restricted to the actual national team players but all available Zim players who have left the system. If these guys were available then the standard of the domestic competition would be higher there for making the national team players better and giving the selectors better players to pick from.

The fact you don't see these things is not surprising considering your short sighted views concerning the selections in the Qualifiers and your reasoning for sacking Streak and Taibu.

You're very biased mate and you've been called for it a few times, the fact Mangongo had been in charge of the under 19's side for so long without any success or achievements actually makes his sacking one of the more 'understandable' sackings.

Im sorry but beating that South African side that came 11th isn't that big an achievement, yes he got a rough pool in the last WC that's why I didn't think he deserved to get sacked, but he really didn't do anything special whilst in charge.

Yes you're right the first side Mangongo took to the WC was missing guys, but as a general rule the age group teams usually have the pick of the crop before they leave for greener pastures and the gap between quality only gets greater the older players get.
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TapsC
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Re: Mangongo demands $400,000 in compensation, gratuity included

Post by TapsC »

jaybro wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 8:17 am
You're getting like your mate Hhm trying to drown me with a thousand words

I'll just stat the facts -

Streak coached Zimbabwe to a series win over a Test playing nation Sri Lanka ( the same Sri Lanka who beat Bangladesh in Bangladesh ) despite the failings against Scotland and UAE I feel this achievement should of at least given him so more time as coach, as I pointed out since we qualified for the super 6's in 2003 ( which was more good luck than anything ) we have achieved fuck all.

Mangongo coached the Under 19's to 10th and 11th place finishes

You're very short sighted TapsC you can never see the big picture, my comment about the senior players leaving is not restricted to the actual national team players but all available Zim players who have left the system. If these guys were available then the standard of the domestic competition would be higher there for making the national team players better and giving the selectors better players to pick from.

The fact you don't see these things is not surprising considering your short sighted views concerning the selections in the Qualifiers and your reasoning for sacking Streak and Taibu.

You're very biased mate and you've been called for it a few times, the fact Mangongo had been in charge of the under 19's side for so long without any success or achievements actually makes his sacking one of the more 'understandable' sackings.

Im sorry but beating that South African side that came 11th isn't that big an achievement, yes he got a rough pool in the last WC that's why I didn't think he deserved to get sacked, but he really didn't do anything special whilst in charge.

Yes you're right the first side Mangongo took to the WC was missing guys, but as a general rule the age group teams usually have the pick of the crop before they leave for greener pastures and the gap between quality only gets greater the older players get.
Mangongo was in charge for 3 years. Streak for almost 2. How exactly has he served for so long? You also dont like Mangongo the proof is there on this forum. For you to say his firing is understandable but cry day and night for Streak shows that. You have never admitted not even once that Streak made mistakes. Who did Mangongo lose to that he shouldnt have lost to? We will never get an answer to that because you know the truth.

Have we ever beaten South Africa in any game at any level before that game? Dont ridicule somebodys achievements. I have never taken away Streaks credit for the Sri Lanka series until you started doing this comparison. That Sri Lanka team went on a run of like 4 ODI wins in 30.

Also because I dont agree with your views I am now HHM? Funny how you said in a previous post "half the people on twitter agree with you" so 50% of your sample is biased and dont have a vision and only think about the short term but you are right?

You can call me HHM if you want because I dont hero worship somebody based on their past and not look at the facts on the ground.

The facts are that under Streak we did beat Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka. We also gave Scotland and the Netherlands and The UAE their first wins over us. Afghanistan almost blanked us in the UAE. They also came at the beginning of last year under the same coach who just took over Zimbabwe and got his guys sweeping the water off the field to get a result and they bowled us out for 54 at home.

Why should I hero worship people who were making outlandish selections like Mavuta and Murray 2 months before the qualifiers. Mayavo who couldnt buy a run at that point in the domestic scene. Brian Chari was forced onto us for how many tests?

The most important fact is that Rajput has a better track record than Streak so we should forget about that and move on. BT and Jarvis even welcomed him. He is not a rubbish appointment and I guess that hurts the pro-streak supporters. I wish you had the same energy when other people were being used and abused by the board

Also notice I agreed to disagree a long time ago. You brought this up again. Calling me biased and short sighted HHMs buddy etc is bordering on character asssassination again. There are always multiple ways of looking at things and people dont have to agree with each other. Im not going to question your train of thought because everybody is entitled to their opinion.

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