Do we really matter?

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zimbos_05
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Re: Do we really matter?

Post by zimbos_05 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:14 am

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:14 am

I wonder if zimbo’s know that the country is a true laughing stock now.
I wonder this too because it is a reality. Only Zimbabweans have that little hope for the country. Other know what it was and has the potential to be, but as of now it is a laughing stock to everyone and Zim has become the butt of the joke for soo much.

As for the Kolpak stuff. It wont stop with SA. Sa players are getting better pay, better lifestyle, better security, and more opportunity to play regular cricket at a consistent high level. On so many occassions you will see a white player do well, but then get dropped purely because there is a player of colour who is fit or needs to be in for the quota. It happens all the time. The moment a white player does not perform, they get dropped, but a player of colour has to have about 10 bad games (in zims case, 100) before they get dropped.

Googly
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Re: Do we really matter?

Post by Googly » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:42 am

I don’t think we’re even of consequence to anyone. We only factor into other countries thoughts when they try and figure out how to keep out Zimbabwe migrants because people are wanting to tip the fuck out of Dodge as fast as they can. We are in dire straits economically, I can’t emphasize that enough. Every week it gets a bit worse.

TapsC
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Re: Do we really matter?

Post by TapsC » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:49 am

zimbos_05 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:14 am
ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:14 am

I wonder if zimbo’s know that the country is a true laughing stock now.
I wonder this too because it is a reality. Only Zimbabweans have that little hope for the country. Other know what it was and has the potential to be, but as of now it is a laughing stock to everyone and Zim has become the butt of the joke for soo much.

As for the Kolpak stuff. It wont stop with SA. Sa players are getting better pay, better lifestyle, better security, and more opportunity to play regular cricket at a consistent high level. On so many occassions you will see a white player do well, but then get dropped purely because there is a player of colour who is fit or needs to be in for the quota. It happens all the time. The moment a white player does not perform, they get dropped, but a player of colour has to have about 10 bad games (in zims case, 100) before they get dropped.
Hmmm out of interest do you guys think SA has a more racist policy than Zim at the moment? Just curious to know what you guys think.

I dont think Zim has a quota policy anymore(maybe because there just arent enough white players in the system anymore). Also I think Zim doesnt have a you get dropped after 1 bad game policy(maybe because we have so many bad games). We have also some multiple games where you even had 7 white players.

I can honestly think of multiple players of all races who have been given more than enough chances in our team. Waller, Burl PJ Chari and Elton being very good examples of what I mean. I would actually go on to say that some players like Mutumbami and Mupariwa were not given the same opportunities. We also saw Roche getting a debut when he was nowhere near ready.

I actually think we are so terrible these days that there is no room for racist selections :lol: the Proteas I guess have such a talented player pool that they can try racist policies because it wont look as bad.

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jaybro
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Re: Do we really matter?

Post by jaybro » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:58 am

As you said Zimbabwe don’t have enough good players or white players to have a quota system, again as you pointed out plenty of white guys have been given more chances than their numbers deserve.

There was an article just prior to the 1st Test v the Windies where the writer suggested the quota question might be asked considering there was only 4 black players in the XI. Everyone shot them down but I thought it was a fair question, would ZC ever sanction an all white XI ??
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sloandog
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Re: Do we really matter?

Post by sloandog » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:27 am

Are there even 11 white people in Zimbabwe anymore..?
When in doubt, listen to Oasis chaps....

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zimbos_05
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Re: Do we really matter?

Post by zimbos_05 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:58 am

TapsC wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:49 am


Hmmm out of interest do you guys think SA has a more racist policy than Zim at the moment? Just curious to know what you guys think.

I dont think Zim has a quota policy anymore(maybe because there just arent enough white players in the system anymore). Also I think Zim doesnt have a you get dropped after 1 bad game policy(maybe because we have so many bad games). We have also some multiple games where you even had 7 white players.

I can honestly think of multiple players of all races who have been given more than enough chances in our team. Waller, Burl PJ Chari and Elton being very good examples of what I mean. I would actually go on to say that some players like Mutumbami and Mupariwa were not given the same opportunities. We also saw Roche getting a debut when he was nowhere near ready.

I actually think we are so terrible these days that there is no room for racist selections :lol: the Proteas I guess have such a talented player pool that they can try racist policies because it wont look as bad.
Hard to argue who has a more racist policy, but I think is more abrupt about it. They will blatantly say they are pushing black players over whites, and when white people speak up, they just brand them as racist (a la Streak).

The problem with Zim is that they have no idea, so anyone can kind of get picked and then there is no real structure in place to develop them, improve them or get them up to the standard required. Certain players keep their places because of who they are mates with, not because of skin colour. Certain players get their spot because of skin colour. Certain players get their spot because there is no one else.

I see school sides who have a lot of white players in them, so they are whites there. They are obviously not going through the system up the levels and in to the channels they need to be. They are probably just not pursuing anything after school grade.

The proteas can kind of get away with racist policies. If they wanted to, they could have an all black bowling attack and no one would argue. You would not argue with Rabada and Ngidi as being your strike bowlers. This stems from CSA having some sort of structure or idea that develops players. So the Proteas could probably be racially biased or racist if you will, but they have players backing up some of the claims.

ZIMDOGGY
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Re: Do we really matter?

Post by ZIMDOGGY » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:14 pm

Good timing as I was just thinking about this tonight as I was going for a run through the bush. At night. Scary btw.

I think zim have a less blatantly obvious racial policy but it’s more complex than that. It used to be the case but now it’s an amalgamated hybrid of racial policy, favouritism and networking. The confusing part is this all contradicts one another on the surface an as a result we have a confusing situation where some black players are shown preference, but white players can get accelerated selection into the national team. And previously favoured guys are on the scrap heap whereas others plod along.

The conclusion to that for me is once this whirlwind of contradictions cancels each other out, the whites, in TODAYS climate come out ok, compared to SA. It’s why Waller wasn’t ditched completely, it’s why Murray gets a gig between uni semesters. It’s why Roche got a lookin.
It’s also why that plodder muzarabani got a good run (not the big cunt but that other mediocre One) and Elton refuses to die, and why Givemore is still a relevant name to us on this forum.

This wasn’t always the case, but it has been for the last 5 years.qoutas should not continue because zim simply doesn’t need quotas.
That said, I think that the country will only tolerate 7 cricketers of pale and sexy complexion, I say this because I’m not naive, I really think we will hear the rumbles from the opportunists in power should a consistent team of 8 or more whites take the field.
But As long as there is one decent black batsman it won’t be an issue though, as the white fast bowler is virtually an extinct breed in Zim. Unless of course Jarvis fucks his bitch to her pussy is mashed potato and they have 9 fast bowling sandy blonde kids to lead into the next generation.
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Googly
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Re: Do we really matter?

Post by Googly » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:38 pm

Ya the quota selection has mostly run its course here, and I’d agree that if a white guy pops his head up and seems good they’ll take a look and they will also persevere with a couple of guys more than they should. Having said that I think Burl has an issue and I think Diplock should have been in a franchise squad by now. At age group level they may tend towards a player of colour, but the kid being replaced would not be a stand out player anyway.

But to say we’ve turned the corner is brushing stuff under the carpet because there’s only 4 (?) white guys left playing franchise, so it’s been a job well done. Apart from Diplock I don’t think there’s any other white guy playing club either? Maybe a couple of youngsters in BuLwayo, but there’s a complete lack of interest from whites in Harare. I’m not sure there’s even Boozers league cricket anymore, it all seems to have collapsed. Again part of that problem is not cricket related, but economical.
The big issue is not hanging onto u19 players and bigger still, not trying to make plans to bring some older players back out of the wilderness. This should have been achieved through the 5th franchise, Zim A and Academy and a reasonable budget, neither of which has happened nor is it likely to.
Any school leaver who has options would be stupid not to go and get a tertiary education elsewhere and that has meant we’ve lost some young guys with real potential. ZC would have had to throw some cash at this problem, either by offering scholarships or by giving a living wage and some reasonable assurances based on landmark achievements, which they’re not prepared to do.
Where they have really messed up is getting rid of Flower, Streak, Brent and Taibu. These guys have a lot to offer, but their situation was untenable here for slightly different reasons, but at the end of the day mostly race based and mostly because there’s only so much shit they were prepared to take. Anyway we’ve discussed all of this ad nauseum. Having said no Academy there is that Campbell Academy, which no one is too sure how it works or what the long term plan is, but I saw some of those lads and there was no one particularly stand out (with the greatest of respect to them), but look what Brent achieved with them. They held their own against a couple of the franchise sides and on paper should not have come close. That shows what can be achieved with good personnel and also shows clearly that franchise need to pull their socks up.
If we weren’t paying back that fictitious loan and we had cricketing brains in key positions it would still be a tough save from here, but we’re far beyond that now. The economy is going to have the last say here. It shouldn’t impact on an industry that earns forex, but through questionable management it most definitely is.

jward
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Re: Do we really matter?

Post by jward » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:01 pm

TapsC wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:49 am
zimbos_05 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:14 am
ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:14 am

I wonder if zimbo’s know that the country is a true laughing stock now.
I wonder this too because it is a reality. Only Zimbabweans have that little hope for the country. Other know what it was and has the potential to be, but as of now it is a laughing stock to everyone and Zim has become the butt of the joke for soo much.

As for the Kolpak stuff. It wont stop with SA. Sa players are getting better pay, better lifestyle, better security, and more opportunity to play regular cricket at a consistent high level. On so many occassions you will see a white player do well, but then get dropped purely because there is a player of colour who is fit or needs to be in for the quota. It happens all the time. The moment a white player does not perform, they get dropped, but a player of colour has to have about 10 bad games (in zims case, 100) before they get dropped.
Hmmm out of interest do you guys think SA has a more racist policy than Zim at the moment? Just curious to know what you guys think.

I dont think Zim has a quota policy anymore(maybe because there just arent enough white players in the system anymore). Also I think Zim doesnt have a you get dropped after 1 bad game policy(maybe because we have so many bad games). We have also some multiple games where you even had 7 white players.

I can honestly think of multiple players of all races who have been given more than enough chances in our team. Waller, Burl PJ Chari and Elton being very good examples of what I mean. I would actually go on to say that some players like Mutumbami and Mupariwa were not given the same opportunities. We also saw Roche getting a debut when he was nowhere near ready.

I actually think we are so terrible these days that there is no room for racist selections :lol: the Proteas I guess have such a talented player pool that they can try racist policies because it wont look as bad.
No, I don't see any racism in Zimbabwe cricket selections in recent years.

Googly
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Re: Do we really matter?

Post by Googly » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:00 pm

We were talking about South Africa’s problems. Do you guys know that until yesterday’s innings Markram was not being considered for their WC squad. I was just speaking to a friend of a friend and apparently they’re about to announce and he’s still not in the mix. That would be a grave error and you wouldn’t blame him for reconsidering his position either.

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