Cricket in Africa ruined by Qouta system, Kolpak deal & Administration.?

[Googly]

Sorry to get inbetween your discussion-
I met one of the SRC people the other day and got some insight into what transpired in the attempted coup, dastardly dealings by Mukuhlani and Makoni to hang onto power at all costs and a complicit and corrupt ICC knowing they can’t control people of integrity.

[TapsC]

TapsC also believes success shouldn't be quantified solely by on field results and crowd attendances, it should be decided by youth involvement and overall total numbers of people playing the game.

If that's the case, then it defeats the whole purpose of doing it in the first place.

Explain

I think the question is whether you are trying to just survive or try to build a world class unit in the long term. Without major citizen participation you will never be world class.. I know people like to use New Zealand but I just googled that there are 170000 registered cricketers there out of 5 million people. Australia 1.3 million out of about 25 million people. Zim probably has 1000 at best out of 14 million. This is the root cause of our lack of competitiveness in my opinion.

This can't be solved overnight. It also can't be solved by only picking from maybe 20000 white people or from 10000 kids who go to elite schools. Im talking long term here not a short term fix. For me the longevity of the game will depend on getting majority participation (not quotas) . Bangladesh for me will eventually have a world class unit because of numbers. They are already a good side but eventually they will be a top top side because they are cricket lovers.

[TapsC]

Sorry to get inbetween your discussion-
I met one of the SRC people the other day and got some insight into what transpired in the attempted coup, dastardly dealings by Mukuhlani and Makoni to hang onto power at all costs and a complicit and corrupt ICC knowing they can’t control people of integrity.

What was their overall plan though?

[TapsC]

I don’t understand why it’s even a discussion that black kids here can’t be inspired by white Zim cricketers. That’s the very thing that inspired Hammy, Vusi, Matsikinyeri etc. Inspiration is not quite the right word, it was more a desire to prove that they could also do it, and probably more importantly it “inspired” their support group- their coach, their throwers, their fetchers and carriers etc. you’re not succeeding in cricket if you don’t have the back up. It proved to be good motivation because they were good players, but didn’t reach their full potential because things collapsed just as they really needed good players around them to realize their potential, plus once those players were gone so to was some of the motivation to keep striving to be better. The black man trying to prove he’s as good as the white here as a means of motivation and inspiration is gone here, that bird has flown a long time ago. Generations here have been indoctrinated into believing whites have what rightfully belonged to blacks and it’s a sense of entitlement that has broken Zimbabwe and South Africa beyond repair. The easy path has been to take what’s not actually theirs to take and to convince themselves and others that it is. It’s the harsh reality of life- if you can’t build it and create it all by yourself, you’re never going to have a clue how to run it, grow it or hang onto it when you steal it. The proof is all around us in every facet of life. The ghetto boys are going to have to find new inspiration and I don’t think there is any here.
The real motivation now is to become good enough to get a scholarship or a gig overseas so you can leave this disgusting mess that has been created and only to return if you fail elsewhere. What an embarrassing indictment on people purportedly there to correct the injustices of the past, but have been shown up to be liars and thieves and cheats, and a further indictment on the people that allow it to continue, not only to allow it to continue but to aspire to be one of the looters, liars and cheats because it is the easy option, and perhaps the only option if you don’t have the requisite skills in the first place.

This is an honest discussion we are going to need to have as a nation 1 day. Googly I got a couple of questions I hope you can answer for me. Now I 100% agree that the people in charge now are lining their pockets imstesd of developing the nation. I also liked your point about how Rhodesia had far worse sanctions.

1- do you really believe that 40 years ago EVERYBODY in our nation was better off?

2- was what you built for EVERYBODY OR just for white people?

3- how do you feel the land issue should have been dealt with?

4- do you feel like black people have no right whatsoever to claim land back?

5- when you talk about black people taking what's not theirs what exactly are you talking about?

Why I say this is because I have personally never met a black person who disagrees with land reform. The problem is who the prime land was given to. Even in South Africa, its inevitable. Thats the honest truth.

[zimbos_05]

Explain

You get in to the business of sport for results. It's a results driven industry. If you continue to lose, then it means you are not really doing anything about coaching and teaching the youngsters so that they can become successful.

I think the question is whether you are trying to just survive or try to build a world class unit in the long term. Without major citizen participation you will never be world class.. I know people like to use New Zealand but I just googled that there are 170000 registered cricketers there out of 5 million people. Australia 1.3 million out of about 25 million people. Zim probably has 1000 at best out of 14 million. This is the root cause of our lack of competitiveness in my opinion.

This can't be solved overnight. It also can't be solved by only picking from maybe 20000 white people or from 10000 kids who go to elite schools. Im talking long term here not a short term fix. For me the longevity of the game will depend on getting majority participation (not quotas) . Bangladesh for me will eventually have a world class unit because of numbers. They are already a good side but eventually they will be a top top side because they are cricket lovers.

On that logic, Soccer should be the most successful sport in Australia. It is not about participation numbers, but what you do with the resources you have. If Zim had around 1000 cricketers in the system when at the peak of it's powers (which they probably did, couldn't have been much), they were producing results on the field and challenging with the best in the world.

The idea should always be about trying to be the best and produce quality. If you are trying to survive, then you are failing and should not be in the role. NZ knows that cricket is not going to be their number one sport, so they invest what they have properly and correctly in to who they have and they constantly produce quality. 2 World Cup finals in a row and arguably some of the best players in the world. You can flood the system with as many players as you want, but if you are not providing them with the right materials to get the job done, the right coaching, the right administration, and the right services, they will never produce any results. You are basically setting the youngsters up to be embarrassed like they were in 04/05 and again after the Qualifiers.

1- do you really believe that 40 years ago EVERYBODY in our nation was better off?
I know what you are hinting at here, but can you say that EVERYBODY is better off now than 40 years ago?

2- was what you built for EVERYBODY OR just for white people?
Did EVERYBODY not use the services? A lot of what is still being used was built by white people

3- how do you feel the land issue should have been dealt with?
The land must 100% be given to the traditional owners. There is a way to do it though. The way it has been done and the manner did more to damage the lives of the majority

4- do you feel like black people have no right whatsoever to claim land back?
Don't be absurd. Black people have right to the land, but can you say that the land has been shared properly and equally, or does land being shared between party members mean that it is being done properly?

I enjoy engaging in discussion with you. I really do. I just think you need to be a bit weary because you seem to take offence quite quickly when the issue of race comes up, but also try to sit on the fence a bit. I also feel that me not being black means that what I say tends to be taken in a manner of being a 'colonialist' rather than in the best interests of Zim, when it definitely not the case.

[ZIMDOGGY]

I also feel that me not being black means that what I say tends to be taken in a manner of being a 'colonialist' rather than in the best interests of Zim, when it definitely not the case.

You come across as fair minded to me. And a fair mind is pretty critical of things in Zim when looked objectively. Even with a fair degree of bias you’d be critical.

And also, aren’t you a curry?
If so, in some ways you’re in a good spot to talk about race stuff in Zim as you’re neither black or fully white. Not that it should matter at all but people do have a habit of playing the man and not the ball’.
Although in my observation West asians in zim gravitate towards white culture in Zim (look at Raza, never seen him in a photo next to a black guy), which is understandable as undo European way is sort of worldwide mainstream culture.

What’s all so funny about this is it’s such a distraction to the real issue facing Zimbabweans, the Chinese. They are truly raping the country. Anally! When they are done there will be none of this trying to help the propel or introduce sport or settling down. They will move on and leave the country ravaged.

They are doing it globally but it’s Africa who will get the worst of it.

[Googly]

I’m out and about today. I’ll get onto this tonight when I’ve got a free hour.

[zimbos_05]

You come across as fair minded to me. And a fair mind is pretty critical of things in Zim when looked objectively. Even with a fair degree of bias you’d be critical.

And also, aren’t you a curry?
If so, in some ways you’re in a good spot to talk about race stuff in Zim as you’re neither black or fully white. Not that it should matter at all but people do have a habit of playing the man and not the ball’.
Although in my observation West asians in zim gravitate towards white culture in Zim (look at Raza, never seen him in a photo next to a black guy), which is understandable as undo European way is sort of worldwide mainstream culture.

What’s all so funny about this is it’s such a distraction to the real issue facing Zimbabweans, the Chinese. They are truly raping the country. Anally! When they are done there will be none of this trying to help the propel or introduce sport or settling down. They will move on and leave the country ravaged.

They are doing it globally but it’s Africa who will get the worst of it.

Yeeeaaahhhh....because curry is a term I like...

Personally, I see what you mean about Indians in Zim gravitating towards white culture. I personally never chose one or the other. I think the reason people have is that it stems from the way the elder generation behaved. There was an idea of master over their african workers, which is completely wrong. It's definitely changing, but I think there is still some kind of superiority complex among a minority. I've also felt that many Indians also became insular, not so much in an arrogant way. They just stuck to their own groups and such.

Lately, there has also been a narrative that Indians must pay and have stolen business and money. I think we've seen that narrative from Chamisa and a lot of ZANU supporters. Malema says it a lot. That kind of rhetoric does nothing for harmony. There are many photos on Razas twitter of him with black people and posts by him celebrating them. Let's be honest, he has fought for better player conditions and pay for all than a lot of if not all the senior black guys.

[Googly]

I’m not disputing the inevitability of land expropriation in SA. The ANC already own 25% of the farm land and efficiently utilize absolutely none of it, they’ve fucked every farm they’ve bought or taken, bar none. That’s a 100% strike rate. It’s as inevitable as the requirement for food and financial aid that Zim is begging for. They will follow our lead and become a failed state. Like us, their economy and infrastructure was designed for a population that was five times smaller than it is now. It will never catch up with the millions of extra mouths that are born every year that will be told their heritage was stolen from them and not one person will do the maths.

Here it’s all but done, perhaps a couple of hundred farmers at most.
Here’s my issue- in the 1890’s there were probably around 50 000 Matabele in the southern part of the country and around another 500 000 others of various tribes in the remainder, but predominantly in the friendlier tsetse and malaria free central plateau and eastern highlands. In the remainder of what? A man made border recently drawn on a map? The Ndebele raided with impunity annually for sport, let nobody dare whine about whites introducing slavery without choking on that bullshit lie. Nobody could withstand the Impi when they were on the march, they were formidable and brave and ruthless, the choice was to run, become a slave or die. The other tribes lived in the rest of the land bordered by the Zambezi in the north by the Ndebeles’ good grace, which expired once a year. Anybody who says otherwise is a liar.
Now explain to me how half a million people, ready to bolt 300km northwards at the first sign of an impi dust cloud could rightfully claim this vast land as their own, 50% of which was uninhabitable anyway because of tsetse fly and malaria. The Americans, British and Australians claiming the whites here treated the native populations unfairly have a hell awaiting them, sanctimonious twats, what they did is kill the native problem before they could learn, adapt and fight back.
Is there a piece of land anywhere on the planet that has not been fought over? What on earth makes the black man’s complaint about being disenfranchised or having members of his tribe/race killed off by someone that looks and thinks differently to him any greater than any other populations that have been displaced over the thousands of years the world over? In my opinion any form of reparations to any offspring of any race are just a form of legalized theft. In one breath people want a free, just and equal society and in the next they really want someone else to pay for it.

I am not disputing that they were pushed out of many prime lands, but not all. Let’s assume 250 000 people were pushed into more marginal farmland.....100 years later 16 million people want their land back? Surely this is Grade 1 maths for all but the most retarded amongst us? The figures aren’t really that relevant to my argument. Mugabe felt he deserved 13 beautiful farms and he came from Malawi and his first wife came from Ghana and his second wife came from South Africa, it turns out practically everybody is a despicable murdering land thief throughout the millennia, it’s not the exclusive domain of the white man.

The Cape was practically uninhabited when the Dutch created a resupply post, but when the whites drew some borders on a map suddenly all the blacks lost their tribal affiliations and expanded their horizons from the little patch they called home and decided the whole of South Africa was theirs.
It’s all complete bullshit in my opinion.

The whites generally treated the blacks poorly, of that there’s no doubt, but perhaps a lot better than the tribes treated each other, there’s more than ample evidence of that. I’m disregarding the missionaries, the doctors, the teachers and the majority of whites that generally improved the overall well-being of the people that were there briefly before them that lived with disease, death at childbirth, famine, the threat from wild animals, raiding murdering neighbors etc. that kept their population static no matter how hard they shagged.
Of course there was the hated hut tax but there were people that came from far far away places (now different countries) to look for work on farms, mines and industry.
Someone else can apologize for being white, but I’m not going to. My tribe built every inch of the country I rightfully call home. Whatever bad stuff white folk did, it’s been trumped many times over of late. It’s not a black white issue really, humans are not a nice species and will find the most spurious reasons to wage war on each other. It’s now a commercial industry and that’s somehow more palatable than a race war? Incidentally more than half the Rhodesian forces were black soldiers, but people don’t like to talk about that, even the Selous Scouts had plenty of black guys.

Aside from a tiny elite of both whites and blacks everybody was better off 50 years ago and would be infinitely better off under better governance now. The grand sleight of hand has been to convince 16 million broken people that they’ve been saved from slavery and racism and all will be ok next year. The only solution is to take and not to build.

In my view nobody has a right to claim their ancestors’ land back We will be here for a cosmic blink of an eye and there’s always a convenient time line that suits someone’s agenda. Nobody seems keen on giving it all back to the San. If you’re the majority you call the shots and if you’re feeling magnanimous you can run to some minority rights. One minute the world sympathizes with the majority, then the minority, it all depends on the flavor of the decade and who makes the most convincing argument and who holds the gun.

There are prohibitive estate taxes and death duties in first world countries that are set up to try and redistribute accumulated wealth and lands to try and avoid generations of landed gentry, but here we just hand back vast swathes of land because somebody claims his great great great grandfather may have lived here a couple of hundred years ago because he was told that over a campfire? How can the great great great grandson of someone who was a hunter gatherer and maybe a nomadic pastoralist lay claim to a piece of land? The written word is usually completely inaccurate and history is written by the victor, but suddenly some hand me down stories are fact?

How do I think the black folk should have been helped farmwise?
I think the government should have made the farmers profit share with their farm workers. I think they should have had to set aside a portion of their farm for the workers and their families and help them learn and grow their own crops and taught them to become commercial and not subsistence farmers. I think their kids should have been afforded the opportunity to enroll in what was then our world class agricultural colleges and given the opportunity to borrow money and acquire land for themselves.... yes buy it just like we had to. I don’t think any farmer should have been allowed more than one farm unless he was a strategic producer. I don’t think any farmer should have been allowed to under-utilize his farm. In what world does a second generation wealthy urban man with political connections have the right to point at a farm that tickles his fancy and claim it as his own and displace a man who’s worked it for three or four generations and also displace the 50-200 farm workers who also call that farm their home? C’mon, who can excuse that?

Land is not a real issue here, it’s a perceived political card. Drive around the country and see the millions of acres that have returned to bush minus the deforestation because the people don’t really want to farm commercially after all, they don’t have the skills or the desire. There are bush clearing contracts available to get previously commercial farmland into a fit state again. If you’re white you can clear it, but you can’t farm it. Land will become a real issue very soon with the massive population pressures, it’s happening now.

Why do we have to hand over 50% of the businesses we built from nothing?
100% of the farms we carved out of the wilderness?

So in my opinion, a fair portion of the land was not theirs, the businesses most definitely were not theirs, the sport was not theirs. By all means they should put their hands up and say they’ve been marginalized, mistreated and victimized and that’s no longer acceptable and it now has to be a level playing field and we now want to be included. Empowerment and quota are sanitized words for returning the favor in spades, anyone with half a brain can figure that out, and it has been proven time and again to break and destroy and perhaps benefit a tiny handful of the political elite and maybe a couple of really determined ghetto guys that become the poster boys to perpetuate the lie and the ongoing theft and destruction of stuff that took half a century or more to carefully create and can be dismantled in a month.

Yes most of what was built was to benefit the whites, aside from rural schools and hospitals and townships.
That’s how it worked back then. Not my fault, but that’s still fairly useful in the scheme of things. It’s what enabled the blacks to become a vast majority and win tthe battle for power and control. I’m trying to think of just one thing the black folk have done for us of late as a goodwill gesture for our community and I’m coming up with zero.

That’s my take, not popular I’m sure.

[Googly]

This is what age our war vets should be and what they should look like around about now. I chanced upon this just now.
https://www.facebook.com/10000588844214 ... 02821/?d=n