Cricket in Africa ruined by Qouta system, Kolpak deal & Administration.?

[TapsC]

I think what he meant was in terms of citizen interest. Cricket is statistically speaking the second most popular sport in Zim now.

I don't buy this. I remember the Tri-Series with West Indies and India where HSC had sell out ground. Even the series against England was super busy. I remember a few other series that were drawing huge crowds. I don't think the fans cared too much whether the people in the kit were white, black, blue, orange...just as long as they were Zim and Zim had an opportunity to win.

I remember sell out crazy packed stadiums at the Showgrounds for the Davis Cup, which had an all white team. The match against Chile was truly memorable. The Black brothers won the doubles after an intense game and that stadium went berserk. There was no issue of colour. The fans couldn't care less. I saw a big african guy crying when Zim won that tie.

The narrative of black people are suffering has been peddled by those doing it and that is where it is now seeping in on the idea of black empowerment.

You dont get it. Even when the sunshine golf tour comes to Zim it's packed but packed by a minority. When I say minority it's not just about colour its also about rich and poor as well. You won't get anybody where Blessing Muzabarani grew up interested in golf because it just seems like a dream to them or tennis. When you see somebody just like you it activates more interest. Blessing would have been inspired by a Mpofu who comes from Magwegwe in bulawayo who would have also been inspired maybe by Olonga. Thats how sport works. Many black parents don't support their kids sporting aspirations because they wouldn't have seen anyone like them doing it. There is a huge multiplier effect you are not taking into account. Elton and Taibu and Hami inspired a generation. The likes of Mire and Musakanda who are from a small town like Kadoma probably were inspired as kids seeing Rainsford who if I remember correctly was from Kadoma too make it. Now parents see its possible they invest.

Did you know for example 2 of the u19 boys Madhevere and Shumba were taken from Chitungwiza and given cricket scholarships at Churchill at age 13.That programme inspired by the great succes it had with the likes of Taibu and Hami.. It's a knock on effect. Those are the activities that ZC did do which has generated more citizen interest amongst the poor majority. These 2 guys will 100% play for Zim in the future. That's what he means. Imagine from Chitungwiza to captaining an SA school on a scholarship there too? That's inspirational for the people around him and his career hasn't even started. This is why I am excited for this u19 world cup.

Now they are a corrupt bunch but the likes of Mangongo have done a lot behind the scenes while most of them are just there to line their pockets. That's the real shame.

[TapsC]

Even at the elite schools cricket isn't the most popular sport. Rugby is by far the most popular sport. They also face their own challenges of convincing some of the rugby kids to take cricket seriously. This is why the chances of getting a white fast bowler are slim. They are usually good at rugby too. The only thing that is catching the eye now is that ZC gets 94 million every 5 years. Rugby does not have that kind of money and kids seeing PJ Jarvis BT and co making good money while the rugby guys play for peanuts is changing their minds and their parents minds.

So for cricket to be as popular as it is now is very much against the odds. Money is what saves them and this is why cutting their funding would have destroyed it forever. People were emotional and didnt think it through.

[jaybro]

TapsC brings up some good points but the biggest issue in Zimbabwe Cricket is the same issue that is killing everything in Southern Africa .....

Greedy people in power

[zimbos_05]

You dont get it. Even when the sunshine golf tour comes to Zim it's packed but packed by a minority. When I say minority it's not just about colour its also about rich and poor as well. You won't get anybody where Blessing Muzabarani grew up interested in golf because it just seems like a dream to them or tennis. When you see somebody just like you it activates more interest. Blessing would have been inspired by a Mpofu who comes from Magwegwe in bulawayo who would have also been inspired maybe by Olonga. Thats how sport works. Many black parents don't support their kids sporting aspirations because they wouldn't have seen anyone like them doing it. There is a huge multiplier effect you are not taking into account. Elton and Taibu and Hami inspired a generation. The likes of Mire and Musakanda who are from a small town like Kadoma probably were inspired as kids seeing Rainsford who if I remember correctly was from Kadoma too make it. Now parents see its possible they invest.

Did you know for example 2 of the u19 boys Madhevere and Shumba were taken from Chitungwiza and given cricket scholarships at Churchill at age 13.That programme inspired by the great succes it had with the likes of Taibu and Hami.. It's a knock on effect. Those are the activities that ZC did do which has generated more citizen interest amongst the poor majority. These 2 guys will 100% play for Zim in the future. That's what he means. Imagine from Chitungwiza to captaining an SA school on a scholarship there too? That's inspirational for the people around him and his career hasn't even started. This is why I am excited for this u19 world cup.

Now they are a corrupt bunch but the likes of Mangongo have done a lot behind the scenes while most of them are just there to line their pockets. That's the real shame.

I 100% get it, which is why i don't buy it.

Those packed stadiums were not only the minority. Those Davis Cup games and that Tri-Series were not the minority. It was the black fans making the noise and cheering on. Someone would have inspired Olonga or Pommie, so the idea that a black man will only take interest because they saw another black man may hold credit, but it is not 100% true.

It's not how sport work. What you are describing is how culture works, not sport. I get where you are coming from, but i don't buy the idea. I don't deny the multiplier effect. I agree with that, I don't agree that it is only possible because an individual of a certain race does it. It starts to play on the idea that only a black person can be considered a true zimbabwean champion. Definitely, be inspired by people of the same colour, but it does not hold true that citizens did not care about cricket before. I know this too because I saw cricket played in townships well before this corrupt mob. I saw the interest and I saw the programmes. ZC were taking the game to the masses, so the idea that the majority were not involved is wholly false.

Money is what saves them and this is why cutting their funding would have destroyed it forever. People were emotional and didnt think it through.

Not sure how this part came in to it, but that thinking is diverting the point. It is no point continuing to get funded if you have the current mob in power. It serves nothing to keep getting that money if it does not get used properly. You only need to look at the fact that the domestic season has been a shambles and that we have not played any international cricket in what is pretty much the middle of our peak cricketing season.

[TapsC]

Bro I literally said it's now rich versus poor more than black versus white. Having 5000 black Zimbabweans who are mainly part of the 1% packing a stadium is not a success. In Zim there are 300000 civil servants out of maybe 14 million people. They earn less than 100usd and they are part of the 3% If you look at the numbers. getting these guys watching tennis is not success. Getting people in the ghetto watching tennis would only happen if 1 of them becomes a tennis star. It's that simple. I don't know what we are arguing about. This is the exact reason why there is no citizen interest in tennis.

As for giving money to this admin I think we have fully covered this in another thread. This is Africa. 1st world rules and thinking doesn't apply because you will never get rid of corruption here you can only manage it. We saw exactly how the SRC ZC fight played out. I think we need to let that topic die.

[jaybro]

Lots of good points being put across but the core of this argument or discussion seems to be around what equates to being successful in terms of sport in Zimbabwe and what type of side or player will inspire Zimbabweans

Zimbo_05 believes success is having a competitive side and packed venues to watch them play, this side will in-turn inspire young kids to want to play the game. Sounds pretty fair and in most cases I'd definitely agree.

TapsC counters by saying the only people who are inspired and watching are the minority 'rich community' black or white it doesn't matter, although the side Zimbo_05 is talking about was almost entirely white.

TapsC believes the kids will only be inspired if they see another black kid from the Highlands or some remote village in the Midlands doing well, which I can understand totally and it makes sense.

TapsC also believes success shouldn't be quantified solely by on field results and crowd attendances, it should be decided by youth involvement and overall total numbers of people playing the game.


IMO you guys both have some good points and I'd agree with everything you guys have said, what you fellas have to probably realise that you're both right and neither are wrong (if that makes sense)

ZC need to be successful both on and off the field, having a side that is only followed by the small minority of whites or rich blacks isn't going to be successful in the long term, sports is all about volume and the more people interested in the game the better. In saying this an 'All Black Side' made up of Kids from the Ghetto that gets flogged all the time isn't going to be successful off the field either and although it might inspire a few kids, nobody likes a loser everyone wants to be a winner. Ideally ZC would have a successful side on the field that the general public can relate to, that's the idea of transformation I guess although both Zimbabwe & South Africa have rushed it at the top level without putting in enough resources on ground level.

The argument about whether or not a black kid can be inspired by a white man doesn't have a clear answer, I actually don't believe it matters too much, in the end of the day people love winners, watching a guy lose horribly isn't going to inspire you just because he looks like you. I watched a video a few years back I can't remember what platform it was on but they were asking kids in Zimbabwe who was their favourite cricketer, the sad thing was none of the kids answered with a Zimbabwean player with most kids saying either ABDV, Kohli, Gayle etc which proves Zimbo_05's point and mine to a degree that it's a successful side/player that will inspire the youth.

I still agree with TapsC that these kids can relate to black players from their villages who have made it, and it will make them believe they can do it too, that's a fair statement. But they're not putting photos up of these guys on their walls. Interesting point to finish on is that in an interview with Dean DuPlessis I think? Brandon Mavuta said he was inspired to bowl leg spin by watching Graeme Cremer when he was younger which in principle ruins both your arguments because young Mavuta wasn't inspired by a successful team nor was he inspired by a man of the same colour or postcode.

[Googly]

I don’t understand why it’s even a discussion that black kids here can’t be inspired by white Zim cricketers. That’s the very thing that inspired Hammy, Vusi, Matsikinyeri etc. Inspiration is not quite the right word, it was more a desire to prove that they could also do it, and probably more importantly it “inspired” their support group- their coach, their throwers, their fetchers and carriers etc. you’re not succeeding in cricket if you don’t have the back up. It proved to be good motivation because they were good players, but didn’t reach their full potential because things collapsed just as they really needed good players around them to realize their potential, plus once those players were gone so to was some of the motivation to keep striving to be better. The black man trying to prove he’s as good as the white here as a means of motivation and inspiration is gone here, that bird has flown a long time ago. Generations here have been indoctrinated into believing whites have what rightfully belonged to blacks and it’s a sense of entitlement that has broken Zimbabwe and South Africa beyond repair. The easy path has been to take what’s not actually theirs to take and to convince themselves and others that it is. It’s the harsh reality of life- if you can’t build it and create it all by yourself, you’re never going to have a clue how to run it, grow it or hang onto it when you steal it. The proof is all around us in every facet of life. The ghetto boys are going to have to find new inspiration and I don’t think there is any here.
The real motivation now is to become good enough to get a scholarship or a gig overseas so you can leave this disgusting mess that has been created and only to return if you fail elsewhere. What an embarrassing indictment on people purportedly there to correct the injustices of the past, but have been shown up to be liars and thieves and cheats, and a further indictment on the people that allow it to continue, not only to allow it to continue but to aspire to be one of the looters, liars and cheats because it is the easy option, and perhaps the only option if you don’t have the requisite skills in the first place.

[Googly]

In my opinion Zimbabwe has produced two really good black young batters and one exceptional one- Myers, Bhawa and Muyeye. Every one of them a product of an “elite” school, and that’s no coincidence. I use that term loosely. If you compare with SA and UK they’re hardly elite.
I will take a bet that the first two will follow in the footsteps of Muyeye and further their education elsewhere first and will use their cricketing abilities to open those doors, and will make every effort to find an alternative to ZC before they resign themselves to having to play under these muppets. By the time they’re of age to do national duty and the UK or SA tell them they’re not wanted our 9 mill a year will have been halved because you simply can’t mismanage that forever without the plug being pulled and we will have lost yet more really talented boys because educated boys with options won’t play for thieves offering peanuts and 5 games a season.

And in other news Byrom blisters 121 off 64 for Fremantle- 40 off the first 31 deliveries just to get his eye in and then 81 off the next 33, including 10 sixes.

[zimbos_05]

I'm not arguing with Taps and i'm not saying he is completely wrong, I am saying that the premise is wrong. I find it bizarre that as soon as there is discussion on here, it automatically gets called an argument and shut down. Those packed out stadiums were not only rich people. I know this because my family was directly involved in the Davis Cup and those stadiums had a strong presence of people from the townships because we actively went to the townships to promote the matches and get people to the games. Yes, there would have a fair number of middle to high income earners, but it was not only.

Yes the side I referred to is mostly white, but there were black players coming through. Those players did not have black players to inspire them, so they must have been inspired from somewhere.

I was not talking about rich vs poor, i was talking about black and white because that was the crux of the story in that written piece by Makoni. About giving it to the masses. If we are talking about rich vs poor, then he is contradictory as he cannot be a leader for such a movement.

Tennis also died not because of rich vs poor, but because of governance and corruption, like most things in Zim. I didn't bring up the SRC, you did.

TapsC also believes success shouldn't be quantified solely by on field results and crowd attendances, it should be decided by youth involvement and overall total numbers of people playing the game.

If that's the case, then it defeats the whole purpose of doing it in the first place.

[jaybro]

TapsC also believes success shouldn't be quantified solely by on field results and crowd attendances, it should be decided by youth involvement and overall total numbers of people playing the game.

If that's the case, then it defeats the whole purpose of doing it in the first place.

Explain