[Match Thread] Zimbabwe vs Ireland - 3rd T20I -- EVERYBODY READ THIS!!!!

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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe vs Ireland - 3rd T20I -- EVERYBODY READ THIS!!!!

Post by CrimsonAvenger » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:20 am

Yeah, agree with foreignfield. More cricket with better teams regularly would not necessarily mean we would have them get better over time. More hard work at the backyard day in and day out, and zero complacency could help though.

Having said that Williams is still quite ahead of Ervine in comfort and ease, and in an ideal world (where there are no periodic excursions by Williams out of the team, and constant correct selection by ZC - batting at 4 or 5 regularly for a decade and more) Williams would have been a 45+ average guy across formats and would have finished next only to Andy Flower in terms of stats and greatness. The guy oozes more class than any other post 2000 cricketer, including Taylor.

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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe vs Ireland - 3rd T20I -- EVERYBODY READ THIS!!!!

Post by Kriterion_BD » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:06 am

jaybro wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:28 pm
I firmly believe that the players would be better if they played better sides more often
Zimbabwe played the 2nd highest number of ODIs in between the two World Cups from 2015-2019. Thats resulted in a 0-5 record against Netherlands and Ireland which I think surprised even the harshest of critics. In the same time frame, ZIM have lost 4 out of 5 series against Afghanistan, themselves struggling to win games against the best sides (0-9 in the just concluded World Cup).

For Zimbabwe, the problem has been largely threefold:

1) Limited talent. I doubt there were ever more than 5000 serious cricketers in the country. With those kinds of numbers, Zimbabwe are actually punching above their weight. Its a miracle the team has produced players like Flower bros, Streak, Price, et al.

2) Inability to maximize whatever talent they do have. Getting guys like Taylor, Ervine, Williams, Raza, Jarvis, Cremer, and Chatara to all fire at the same time. The inability of more than 2 of those guys to fire led to that loss against the UAE.

3) ZC problems. No need to write more since its been beaten to death here already.
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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe vs Ireland - 3rd T20I -- EVERYBODY READ THIS!!!!

Post by Googly » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:57 am

There has never been more than 100 serious cricketers in Zim.
Good points. Yep it keeps boiling down to a high standard and high volume of domestic cricket. That’s a tall order- the volume is possible, but we don’t have the depth of quality.
In my view you need to add spice because that really motivates people. The same old friends playing against each other in an endless rotation dulls the senses, especially when we know that no one really lives in Mutare or Kwe-Kwe (so nice they named it twice :lol:)
We need one team of newbies and to ditch a few guys that just make up numbers.
We need Matabeles only playing at Tuskers and we need to cut off their water and electricity (been done already but u know what I mean) and taunt them just before games with the Mashonas so there’s blood lust.
I hate saying this but we probably need a team of murungus so everyone wants to beat them at all costs (the White Rhinos :lol:)
The old club, provincial and personal rivalries we used to have is what made us damned competitive at rugby and cricket back in the day. Nowadays it’s lame and tame.
People used to go specifically to watch personal match-ups on the rugby field for example, you don’t see much of that anymore.
In my youth you had to tread very carefully when you went down to Bulawayo, and even going to another club for a drink you might think twice about before or after a tense game, and you’d certainly choose your words carefully. This “club” system we’ve got now is a joke.
No one feels any strong ties to these pseudo clubs, they don’t socialize there, they just pitch up and play and leave. Most of the players don’t even live in that area, and it’s the same problem with the provincial sides. How are you going to get really motivated, other than a personal and professional motivation to do well for yourself?
In the old days Takashinga were hugely motivated to beat the white clubs, and in turn those clubs didn’t want to lose at any cost. That’s the fire we need, I don’t know how you artificially create that now it’s all been extinguished, but you need to set up proper structures that make sense and DONT change from day to day and in time those affiliations, loyalties and rivalries will grow again.

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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe vs Ireland - 3rd T20I -- EVERYBODY READ THIS!!!!

Post by Googly » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:06 am

You need a kid growing up saying “I want to play for Old Georgians” for example. Nowadays any good kid just wants to leave or just play directly for Zim. That’s not how it’s works. Or if his mates are going to the lake for a braai with some chicks he don’t want to play that weekend. There’s no magic formula to getting this way of thinking back.

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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe vs Ireland - 3rd T20I -- EVERYBODY READ THIS!!!!

Post by brmtaylor.com admin » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:16 am

Let's figure out where we bottom out then Googly. Can you list which country clubs and sports clubs still have some sort of notable presence in Zim?

HSC
Old Hararians
Old Georgians
Country Club
Takashinga
Harare South Country Club (??)
Universals (??)
Sunrise (??)
Alex (??)
QSC
BAC
Mutate Sports Club (??)
Kwekwe Sports Club (??)
Queens Sports Club in Kwekwe (??)

What about Gweru? Hwange? Victoria Falls? Norton? Marondera? Kadoma? Chinhoyi? Selukwe? Triangle?

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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe vs Ireland - 3rd T20I -- EVERYBODY READ THIS!!!!

Post by jaybro » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:18 am

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:06 am
jaybro wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:28 pm
I firmly believe that the players would be better if they played better sides more often
Zimbabwe played the 2nd highest number of ODIs in between the two World Cups from 2015-2019. Thats resulted in a 0-5 record against Netherlands and Ireland which I think surprised even the harshest of critics. In the same time frame, ZIM have lost 4 out of 5 series against Afghanistan, themselves struggling to win games against the best sides (0-9 in the just concluded World Cup).

For Zimbabwe, the problem has been largely threefold:

1) Limited talent. I doubt there were ever more than 5000 serious cricketers in the country. With those kinds of numbers, Zimbabwe are actually punching above their weight. Its a miracle the team has produced players like Flower bros, Streak, Price, et al.

2) Inability to maximize whatever talent they do have. Getting guys like Taylor, Ervine, Williams, Raza, Jarvis, Cremer, and Chatara to all fire at the same time. The inability of more than 2 of those guys to fire led to that loss against the UAE.

3) ZC problems. No need to write more since its been beaten to death here already.
I said play BETTER TEAMS more often

Once again not reading what others write
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe vs Ireland - 3rd T20I -- EVERYBODY READ THIS!!!!

Post by Googly » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:24 pm

brmtaylor.com admin wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:16 am
Let's figure out where we bottom out then Googly. Can you list which country clubs and sports clubs still have some sort of notable presence in Zim?

HSC
Old Hararians
Old Georgians
Country Club
Takashinga
Harare South Country Club (??)
Universals (??)
Sunrise (??)
Alex (??)
QSC
BAC
Mutate Sports Club (??)
Kwekwe Sports Club (??)
Queens Sports Club in Kwekwe (??)

What about Gweru? Hwange? Victoria Falls? Norton? Marondera? Kadoma? Chinhoyi? Selukwe? Triangle?
Old Georgians sadly hasn’t had a club side in years, other than Boozers league, which is not played as regularly as it used to be.
Harare South was a magnificent place, it’s now an overgrown wasteland. You can’t even see there was once a golf course or cricket field there.
Sunrise have a club and a pitch, but it’s not great.
I don’t think anything goes on at Universals.
Country Club has been taken over by Bvute, he’s had his eye on it for years. Beautiful ground. No idea what his plans are but I don’t think it’s cricket, some sort of business park development perhaps. That’s where the indoor place is and a beautiful set of nets. Nothing happens there cricket-wise.
I don’t think anything is going on at Alex.
OH is run by ZC, two grounds there. The pitches are ok but the outfield is shite. They got it into reasonable condition for the qualifiers but it’s gone downhill.
Mutare, Kwekwe and Queens are good and run by ZC.
They play at BAC I’m sure, but haven’t seen it in years.
Kadoma has a ground and they play occasionally on it. I think ZC May have something to do with it.
Takashinga is ok, I’m pretty sure ZC have something to do with it because of the Makoni connection.
Gweru I can’t answer, if there’s any cricket it won’t be great and the grounds will be terrible.
One of the issues on most of these grounds is water. It’s a problem everywhere and of course you need the equipment and to pay for the electricity (no electricity countrywide)
Hwange used to have a nice ground but I haven’t heard of cricket being played there for years.
Triangle will be good, used to be magnificent, it’s run by the Sugar Co so there’s water and some upkeep.

It’s all in a really sorry state, I’m afraid.

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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe vs Ireland - 3rd T20I -- EVERYBODY READ THIS!!!!

Post by brmtaylor.com admin » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:38 pm

I remember thinking Country Club looked magnificent when I was standing there talking with a chap who went to watch his grandson do some throwing practice. Sad to think not much cricket is happening there now, what a waste.

BAC seemed a pretty nice place with a bit of history behind it. The overwhelming feeling I had there was that I couldn't believe it hosted a Test match, it seemed very much like a club ground and nothing more :lol:


What other towns used to have country clubs and cricket grounds Googly?

Some digging on Google maps:

Hwange looks to be in decent condition:
https://www.google.com/maps/search/hwan ... a=!3m1!1e3

Harare South: doesn't look in great shape from above
https://www.google.com/maps/search/Simo ... a=!3m1!1e3

Kadoma looks like the grass is dead but otherwise okay:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kadom ... 29.9198424

Triangle looks fantastic:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Trian ... 31.4475274

Gweru: either they've relaid the pitch or dug it up :(
https://www.google.com/maps/search/Gwer ... a=!3m1!1e3

If you want to see a really sad state of affairs, I think this might be the old Selous Country Club:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Selou ... 30.4458448

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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe vs Ireland - 3rd T20I -- EVERYBODY READ THIS!!!!

Post by Googly » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:12 pm

I think Bindura may have something going on, there was a great clip of an astonishingly talented young kid practicing in the nets there, but I would be lying if I said I knew much else. I just now everywhere is in disrepair. The country is completely broke. If we can’t pay to get electricity, which the whole country needs then that tells you everything you need to know. It’s a simmering pot of discontent here at the moment and people are getting more and more vocal.

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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe vs Ireland - 3rd T20I -- EVERYBODY READ THIS!!!!

Post by brmtaylor.com admin » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:19 pm

Bindura looks okay, just needs some water: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bindu ... 31.3198491

All of these places must have been absolutely thriving 40 years ago. What a decline.

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