Concrete evidence of corruption and theft?

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TapsC
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Re: Concrete evidence of corruption and theft?

Post by TapsC » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:46 am

I dont support the board, never have. In fact the last guy I had hope in was Manase. The problem I have here is how this is being done. I dont think it will work. We always make the same mistakes.

First mistake is that thieves will do whatever it takes to survive and we wont. So you need to surprise them, not confront them. How do you do that? FBI style investigation before arresting where you know you have something concrete to nail them and you arrest them by surprise. Dont make threats of audits etc because you know they will burn the building. Secondly Mukuhlani would have had to surrender his passport and he could not have been able to fly to the final. The fact that they accepted him there already showed they had his back. Organizations like FIFA etc are corrupt. Thieves only abandon each other if they had no choice. An arrest before acting would have done the trick.

Secondly we all know the race card will be pulled but still you get a white board chairman. It doesnt make sense why you give them this type of ammunition. Every single time.

Thirdly Mlotshwa is clearly compromised and this is personal. Thats the truth and we all know it. Do you not think the ICC can see that? Its so blatantly obvious Titan Law has represented multiple cases against ZC. The ICC are not impartial. They are looking for ways to keep Mukuhlani.

Fourthly we will never ever recover if we lose the funding. Lets not lie to ourselves. We all thought to ourselves that the SRC had a plan but risking everything hoping the ICC would rule in their favour was a dumb move.

We have to be careful when dealing with lawyers. More often than not they always think they are right and their egos will not let them backtrack. This makes Mlotshwa to me very dangerous. He could kill the game forever. Cricket and rugby have completely different setups. Most cricteters in Zimbabwe play for money and not passion unlike rugby. No money = certain death.

Seeing Mlotshwa coming out and making comments like "lets forget about ICC money" really concern me. He is digging in at the expense of cricket. Thats my worry

Googly
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Re: Concrete evidence of corruption and theft?

Post by Googly » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:21 am

Fair point. Ya the lawyer never loses.
There are egos involved here, which can be a worry. On the one hand it’s good because he hopefully won’t let this go, but on the other he may have misjudged the ICC in his haste to get one over Muhku, I would have thought the people in SRC were too smart for that though, time (and we don’t have a lot of it) will tell.
The timing of SRC’s move was actually good. They did have unconstitutional elections, they were arrogant enough to believe that would be overlooked as they haven’t had a serious challenge yet.
I firmly believe they have overwhelming evidence against ZC. Those guys have had free rein and all they’ve had to do is pull the wool over the eyes of a few tame auditors.
The ten million dollar question, however, is why we’re not seeing an actual charge being laid. It’s frustrating to sit on the sidelines and not know what cards everybody is holding. It’s like watching world championship poker without the benefit of the screen that shows the guys’ cards...almost a pointless exercise.

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Re: Concrete evidence of corruption and theft?

Post by brmtaylor.com admin » Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:25 am

I think you're right TapsC, it certainly feels like the SRC had a flawed strategy. "The fact that they accepted him there already showed they had his back." - exactly, the game is rigged.

I think to answer your other question about why pick a white chairman, I think the SRC have legitimately tried to make appointments that would be good for cricket and Ellman-Brown fit that bill.

I think there's an element of naivety in their approach to this. Maybe they've got something up their sleeve but I suspect they don't now. They thought reason and common sense would win the day and it was never going to at the ICC.

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Re: Concrete evidence of corruption and theft?

Post by Googly » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:58 pm

We’re all guessing a bit here, but I know some big hitters that use Titan, they’re pretty smart. I also think this has been more carefully strategized than we’re giving them credit for. My 10c worth and I hope I’m right or we’re sunk. It would be a big climb down for Mlotshwa to say he’d not anticipated this and to allow ZC to continue and a lot of loss of ego would be involved in that decision.
For starters If I were them I’d go to ICC and tell them I’d squash the loan by paying it, just as a goodwill gesture.

ZIMDOGGY
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Re: Concrete evidence of corruption and theft?

Post by ZIMDOGGY » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:07 am

TapsC wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:46 am
I dont support the board, never have. In fact the last guy I had hope in was Manase. The problem I have here is how this is being done. I dont think it will work. We always make the same mistakes.

First mistake is that thieves will do whatever it takes to survive and we wont. So you need to surprise them, not confront them. How do you do that? FBI style investigation before arresting where you know you have something concrete to nail them and you arrest them by surprise. Dont make threats of audits etc because you know they will burn the building. Secondly Mukuhlani would have had to surrender his passport and he could not have been able to fly to the final. The fact that they accepted him there already showed they had his back. Organizations like FIFA etc are corrupt. Thieves only abandon each other if they had no choice. An arrest before acting would have done the trick.

Secondly we all know the race card will be pulled but still you get a white board chairman. It doesnt make sense why you give them this type of ammunition. Every single time.

Thirdly Mlotshwa is clearly compromised and this is personal. Thats the truth and we all know it. Do you not think the ICC can see that? Its so blatantly obvious Titan Law has represented multiple cases against ZC. The ICC are not impartial. They are looking for ways to keep Mukuhlani.

Fourthly we will never ever recover if we lose the funding. Lets not lie to ourselves. We all thought to ourselves that the SRC had a plan but risking everything hoping the ICC would rule in their favour was a dumb move.

We have to be careful when dealing with lawyers. More often than not they always think they are right and their egos will not let them backtrack. This makes Mlotshwa to me very dangerous. He could kill the game forever. Cricket and rugby have completely different setups. Most cricteters in Zimbabwe play for money and not passion unlike rugby. No money = certain death.

Seeing Mlotshwa coming out and making comments like "lets forget about ICC money" really concern me. He is digging in at the expense of cricket. Thats my worry
You can be hard to read here because you bring with you bags of 'hard to swallow' pills for the forum.

Unfortunately for those in a bubble, it doesnt mean you are wrong.

I do disagree with the white thing though. The new board has alot of black representation, and isnt part of the fight here to have a board where colour doesnt matter, only the right person? White people shouldnt have to live in fear. DEB has been the most successful director we have had. If he was black he'd be black but hes white so hes white. The next guy might be black, but he has to deserve it. M observation with Zimbabwe is too many times people want opportunities not for merit and hard work but hoping they can manipulate outcome and have the opportunity come to them. Thats not how success happens.
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Re: Concrete evidence of corruption and theft?

Post by ZIMDOGGY » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:07 am

So it is clear to me that a lot of the corruption we bang on about is either hearsay rumours or obsolete in 2019.

Th strategy for me is clear now.

There appears to be actual credibility to the claims that Mukhulani’s reappointment was unlawful as there was a directive to delay the election.

Therefore his appointment as an ‘rightfully elected director’ is not correct. Especially if there’s been vote stacking and the things that as of now are rumours to me.

Titan and the SRC for me are best to go in with the argument that the current board was NOT democratically elected.

They then can oversee a lawful and fair election, they can use the next three months to do what they have to do to ensure its legal (or even illegal if we get the right guys in) so as to make the election legitimate and render the ICC ruling void.

Not easy, but a clear strategy.
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ZIMDOGGY
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Re: You got what you deserve!!!

Post by ZIMDOGGY » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:08 am

encore wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:17 pm
Precisely what did you guys think would happen???

This was such a gross and embarassing miscalculation from both fans, as well as the new regime within the Sports Ministry and misguided SRC.

Never in a million years did I think this forum ... THIS FORUM ... would be so ignorant and overlook such an elementary fact that government interference would be "fatal"!

I feel for the players, but anti-ZC crusaders deserve this ejection.

With a severely overpaid pair of Brendan taylor and Kyle Jarvis, you can't even beat UAE to qualify for the CWC, then get humiliated by Netherlands and Ireland in conditions where you claim you would have competed better than Afghanistan.

A limping Ryan ten Doeschate - so called minnow-basher - would have worth far more than Taylor and Jarvis combined!

Indeed! What an apt title and thread! "Concrete evidence of corruption and theft?" Absolutely sums up the long-standing denials and misinformation of the forum.

Hogg and Ellman-Brown are no Malcom Speed! Even he couldn't come right. In all the years of ZCU/ZC existence no one from the ICC and it's auditors, or ZCu/ZC auditors has ever been able to prove anything tangible! Even the imported Pakistani - a seasoned ICC administrator - came to confirm that fact. In fact, the Pakistani may very well have been the one who finished off C with his mindless decision-making, and financial distasters!
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/icc-axes-s ... dsb6b.html
ICC axes Speed over stance on Zimbabwe

The ICC's president-elect, David Morgan, confirmed the move to stand down Speed in a statement on Friday.

"This … is the result of a fundamental breakdown in the relationship between the CEO and a number of board members, including the president, over a variety of issues that include Zimbabwe," Morgan said.
Hi HHM.
Long time no see!
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ZIMDOGGY
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Re: Concrete evidence of corruption and theft?

Post by ZIMDOGGY » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:10 am

Googly wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:19 am
That’s simply not true. People know exactly what’s happened. I’ve seen stuff first hand but I didn’t start photographing and taking affidavits, I just watched and shook my head. I have seen countless things.
This is the problem, no ones doing this.
Not that its YOUR job, but there are people who are close to the action who should be doing just this.

Jimmy comes to mind.

The silence of alot of posters here is a symptom of the greater problem, like I said earlier. People just want to whinge, and not even take the time to fully understand what they are whinging about! The first step is to actually diagnose and isolate the issues. Then hold to account or collect evidence against.
Cricinfo profile of the 'James Bond' of cricket:

FULL NAME: Angus James Mackay
BORN: 13 June 1967, Harare
KNOWN AS: Gus Mackay

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Player.

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TapsC
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Re: Concrete evidence of corruption and theft?

Post by TapsC » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:08 am

I agree that DEB is probably the most qualified man to handle the job. Sad it always ends up being twisted. For me I believe in that proverb " it doesnt matter if the cat is white or black, as long as it catches mice". I think its Chinese or something but very accurate

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encore
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Re: You got what you deserve!!!

Post by encore » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:23 am

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:08 am
Hi HHM.
Long time no see!
I'm lost :)
Voice of reason.

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