2019/20 Domestic Cricket Season - Logan Cup, Pro50, Twenty20

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ZIMDOGGY
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Re: 2019/20 Domestic Cricket Season - Logan Cup, Pro50, Twenty20

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

It’s funny I read the replies here about how our First class system is filled with passengers (it is) yet I clearly remember most people being in favour of expanding the first class system two and three years ago.

I was widely ridiculed for suggesting we are better off going the other way and having a three team setup.

We need to consolidate and have our best players in high concentration, and experiment with players when the national team players are out.
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zimbos_05
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Re: 2019/20 Domestic Cricket Season - Logan Cup, Pro50, Twenty20

Post by zimbos_05 »

Zim domestic was definitely one of the best in the world. We had international players playing for club sides and International touring sides training at local club grounds and playing warm up games against them too. I remember the India and Pakistan sides playing at Sunrise and Universals regularly.

England and Australian domestic sides would also tour Zim for pre season camps. Our domestic scene was one of the best going around. To say that what we have now is not anyones fault is completely false.

There is just a mob of individuals who will continue to pillage and then blame everyone else when issues arise. The fall out with the SRC was a prime example.

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Stoneman Returns
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Re: 2019/20 Domestic Cricket Season - Logan Cup, Pro50, Twenty20

Post by Stoneman Returns »

Zimbabwe will fail to stay as a cricket nation unless they remove politicians and bring individuals associated with the game in the administration
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jaybro
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Re: 2019/20 Domestic Cricket Season - Logan Cup, Pro50, Twenty20

Post by jaybro »

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:14 pm
It’s funny I read the replies here about how our First class system is filled with passengers (it is) yet I clearly remember most people being in favour of expanding the first class system two and three years ago.

I was widely ridiculed for suggesting we are better off going the other way and having a three team setup.

We need to consolidate and have our best players in high concentration, and experiment with players when the national team players are out.
Ideally there would be 4 sides plus an academy team, but he’s you’re right there’s not enough talent who have committed themselves or who are available.

If you’re fair dinkum about the talent putting their hands up at the moment, there’s barely enough for two quality sides.
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ZIMDOGGY
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Re: 2019/20 Domestic Cricket Season - Logan Cup, Pro50, Twenty20

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

jaybro wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:11 am
ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:14 pm
It’s funny I read the replies here about how our First class system is filled with passengers (it is) yet I clearly remember most people being in favour of expanding the first class system two and three years ago.

I was widely ridiculed for suggesting we are better off going the other way and having a three team setup.

We need to consolidate and have our best players in high concentration, and experiment with players when the national team players are out.
Ideally there would be 4 sides plus an academy team, but he’s you’re right there’s not enough talent who have committed themselves or who are available.

If you’re fair dinkum about the talent putting their hands up at the moment, there’s barely enough for two quality sides.
To be honest, that would be my ideal.

A Bulawayo and Harare based side, latching onto the South African domestic scene.
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Player.

**
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TapsC
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Re: 2019/20 Domestic Cricket Season - Logan Cup, Pro50, Twenty20

Post by TapsC »

To be honest 70% of domestic matches here dont even deserve FC status. Always rained off and national team players never pitch up. How Chari has played more FC games than 33 year old senior players will always baffle me.

The medium term solution here is to fully incorporate into the SA domestic system for the next 5-10 years. Negotiate to add 3 full time franchises and get junior national teams also to be incorporated into their junior setup. Zim Rugby sent a development down south this year and their performances against other african teams seriously improved even though they were getting slaughtered down there. This produced better results than just having a local league.

The 4 Domestic franchises here should then be replaced with 3 regional club leagues. Club leagues need less money.

Do this for 5 years and import 4 or 5 guys to keep us going and we have a chance. They also need to setup a full time academy in South Africa where they can go and buy a couple of houses and negotiate with a University to send the kids there. All these things are possible when they are in fact bringing in over 10 million USD every year. There are no excuses why this cant all be done

I wonder if ZC actually sits down and plans some of these things.

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jaybro
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Re: 2019/20 Domestic Cricket Season - Logan Cup, Pro50, Twenty20

Post by jaybro »

You need a First Class, List A & T20 tournament as part of your requirements as a full member so you can’t totally disband the Logan Cup teams and just play club cricket.

Playing a side in the South African setup would be ideal if incorporated with the domestic setup, you could pick the best performing players from the Logan Cup to play in the Zimbabwe A side in South Africa, if players lose form they can be brought back to Logan Cup, and vice versa well performing players from Logan Cup can be promoted.

Once again though at this rate there’s not enough good players around at the moment.
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encore
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Re: 2019/20 Domestic Cricket Season - Logan Cup, Pro50, Twenty20

Post by encore »

TapsC wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:40 am
The medium term solution here is to fully incorporate into the SA domestic system for the next 5-10 years. Negotiate to add 3 full time franchises and get junior national teams also to be incorporated into their junior setup. Zim Rugby sent a development down south this year and their performances against other african teams seriously improved even though they were getting slaughtered down there. This produced better results than just having a local league.
Burl, Moor, Murray, Musakanda and the Wallers - Nathan & Malcolm were routinely molested by 2nd stringers in the Africa T20. Rugby is an 80 minute game, cricket is a 3/4 day game. That "Slaughter" then takes on a completely different definition. So no thanks. Too costly for facilities, players and officials just to accommodate meanigless "competition". Years ago yes, but now at these costs, who will foot it? Besides, this would distort a lot of stats and figures. Anyway, unless all ZIM matches are in flat ZIM pitches then maybe it might work, but in SA pitches, forget it, not even our top FC/List A bats cope. Steve Smith can dominate in ENG, NZ, WI, IND, AUS and PAK/UAE easily averaging 60+, but a season or two in SA and even he will be happy with just sniffing 50, 40 if he's top 3. Not even Amla and AB(from the middle order) touched 50 in Tests here, and just 40 for Biff. I doubt Kallis ever touched 50 in SA while batting in the top order(1-3).
The 4 Domestic franchises here should then be replaced with 3 regional club leagues. Club leagues need less money. Do this for 5 years and import 4 or 5 guys to keep us going and we have a chance. They also need to setup a full time academy in South Africa where they can go and buy a couple of houses and negotiate with a University to send the kids there. All these things are possible when they are in fact bringing in over 10 million USD every year.
You can't do that and still be a Full Member. Plus there is nothing wrong with an Academy's location as long as you keep Mark Vermeulen far away from it. As I suggested in the first page of this thread, ZC need to cull almost all the older players and give contracts to the domestic cricket youngsters, while retaining some top older crop. No central contracts must be issued, and the only contracted players BT & KJ severely penalised for needlessly missing domestic games.

Making participation compulsory is the only way to ensure guys like Williams and Craig don't miss domestic games. Players like Raza. Maruma and Chakabva who will skip domestic games for non-sanctioned T20 or club games must be barred form domestic and international participation for Zimbabwe. That will also act a deterrent for some even though some will be lost permanently. From those remaining you will be in a position to organise regular A/XI matches in and out.

The truth of the matter is that apart from Jongwe and Mashinge, there are no other players with top international class potential that Zimbabwe have produced since the Hami-Taibu era(minus the deserters like of Welch course). What that means is while you still have a commitment to guys like Musakanda, Burl, Ngarava, Chari, Mumba playing in Tests/ODIs/T20s, the u19s are a priority as well so a lot of funds have to go to their camps and matches.*

Trying to rely on other countries like SA is useless unless the domestic setup is renewed. Perhaps what is required is a thread where we try and see the best possible squads of four sides with 15 players - Matland, Mashland, Manicaland and Midlands - with youngsters to build from.

*NB: None of what I'm saying would be new to Zimbabwe. ZC under the late Chingoka and Bvute organised plenty matches for the u19s, and the domestic setup had a lot of youth, plus there were countless A & XI matches. Bear in mind that this is how the likes of Craig, Shingi and Malcolm Waller emerged a bit later to join the likes of Taibu, Hami, Williams, Elton etc, and Kasuza, Burl, Lake, Jongwe, Musoko, etc after that. Most of them like Burl & Kasuza actually played or are playing FC, and have been doing so for a long time. Craig Overton bowled for England in the Ashes, and I would pick Jongwe over him in any format. Would Ben Duckett outbat either of Kasuza/Moor/Chari/Burl/Musakanda in a Test match in ZIM against Mumba, Ngarava, Mashinge and Mavuta(never mind Chatara, Jarvis, Nyauchi and M'shangwe)? So it's not all bad.
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sloandog
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Re: 2019/20 Domestic Cricket Season - Logan Cup, Pro50, Twenty20

Post by sloandog »

Hhm, Ben Ducket has more talent in his left finger nail than all those names combined! If you’ve never seen him bat live, which you haven’t clearly, don’t make assumptions or camparisons which simply don’t warrant discussion. He’s an unreal batter and would out bat all the guys you mentioned, in ODI cricket or Test Cricket.

sloandog
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Re: 2019/20 Domestic Cricket Season - Logan Cup, Pro50, Twenty20

Post by sloandog »

And by the way, while we’re talking of Kazuza, have you ever seen him bat..?

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