SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

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encore
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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by encore » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:07 am

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:26 am
And selection was horrible. That isn’t close to our best team we can field- even With the main players out.
This is the problem.

Singapore would have lost to any of these 4 full stenghth domestic ZIM sides - Mountaineers, Rhinos, Eagles and Tuskers.

Imagine a proper A Team.

I keep on saying even NZ tried this nonsese against lowly Zimbabwe and got beat.

IND & SL went to ZIM some years ago(2010) and got beat by ZIM in the Tri-Series.

SL brought their A team to SA a couple of months back, masquerading as an Emerging side, and they lost to our Emerging boys, never mind our 2nd/3rd/4th A team.

In my book, the losses of IND, SL, NZ and SL-EME were more embarassng than this ZIM side's loss to Singapore. Same with the A side from SL which lost twice to ZIM in that A-Team Tri-Series with SA. Remember when Elton bowled them out for 81?

Always show some respect. Pick players with defined roles and execute according to a plan, always! Houghton, Fletch, Hick, Curran, Rawson etc were brilliant, but they were repeatedly thumped, by sometimes lesser Xis in my view, because they were not underestimated as non-ODI or non-Test status players. AUS, ENG, IND & PAK never wekeaned their teams against them unnecessarily.

ZIM have played NEP and SIN with non-exitent bowling attacks and crazy batting orders, plus stupid strategies. You can't be more disrespectful than that! NZ were disrespectful to ZIM and they paid for it.
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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by Googly » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:15 am

So now he’s a better bowler than Siddle, Morkel, Abbott, Pattinson and Amir?
I’ve never said he isn’t a decent player, I don’t think, and he’d have been a good allrounder if he’d decided to carry on with his bowling. How did he get away without having to bowl too often here if he was that good? And why would he want to ease up on his bowling? His batting stats don’t show him to be a pure batsman. They even made Kallis bowl right through his career and he really didn’t have to.

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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by Googly » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:19 am

Now you’re effectively saying that the franchise sides are better than the national side? No they’re not.

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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by Googly » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:30 am

What Zim A team are you imagining? I don’t think we have an A team that is worth touring with. Not that ZC would ever consider that because that would cost money.
Retiring Ervine next year? And who would replace him?
You have to take a reality check and understand that we don’t have the players in the wings that you’re alluding to. No amount of coaching or exposure is going to change that. As usual we have a couple of promising U19’s, but they will either be overlooked, or they’ll go to Uni or they’ll seek greener pastures. The youngsters one notch back with less options will hang around and wait for someone to die and the broken system will continue to flounder on in the short term. We need to snare the best of the crop and for ZC to have the inclination, but they certainly have the means, don’t be fooled.
Thats why we’re talking about Mashinge, Jongwe and Jaure and not Matigimu, Muyeye, Byrom, Welch, Curtis, Curran (s), Melton, Higgins, Evans, Lake etc etc.
I’m not disrespecting the former names, they’re good players with potential, but they’re not close to what these muppets have let slip through their fingers.

I know as a fact that the “interim board” would have pulled out all the stops to lure a couple of these guys back. Did you watch Byrom in that Vitality Blast? Do you know what he probably would have done to that Singaporean attack? :lol: He’s not even considered a T20 player either in the UK.
Against all odds there are a handful of good u19’s this year I’ve been told, watch them slip through the cracks as well. I can tell you with certainty that these are the last of our decent boys. There’s one or two others but as far as schoolboys go this it, this is the end of the line. The magic porridge pot has shut down after this lot. There is not one good schoolboy batter on the horizon for many more years unless the schools get together and try and fix the problem, which they won’t.

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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by encore » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:07 am

Googly in some parts there you're saying things I never wrote.

Anyway, I still stand by my argument that ZIM has got enough talent for all forms of the game. Not he right players are being picked for the relevant roles in order to form a team that will improve over time.

Once upon a time here I used to be criticised for saying an all-black South African team would thump Zimbabwe. Even you made a joke of it.

And yet today, full strength teams from IND/ENG/AUS would lose to an all Black Test XI(watch it happen with rugby if the Boks flop, especially if they fail to beat Italy come Friday). It's not about race, it's about identifyiing the right talent and deploying it correctly. AUS/IND/ENG would legitimately lose a Test in SA to this team:

Mokoena, Rapulana, Ramela, Bavuma(c), Qeshile, Makwetu(wk), Zondo, Phehlukwayo, Gqamane, Rabada, Ngidi

I can pick an all-white non-Kolpak team too with many non-capped players that would also beat those sides. And an Indian-Coloured one.

A Smith-Warner-Bancroft less team was still winning with a big revolving door, and probably would have continued to win had they stayed together. WI have done it many times - batting and bowling overhauled. BD overhauled their team pretty quick. You can't say the Musakandas, Burls, Mumbas, Wellingtons, Jongwes etc are that bad in comparison. But what exactly are you trying to achieve in the long run in T20s by opening with Chakabva? Nothing! This is why England, and now AUS overhauled their LOI teams. Many unproven in the beginning.
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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by sloandog » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:19 am

I think Regis has some potential in T20 Cricket, from what I saw during his explosive 48. Same with Mutombodzi. Clearly an under rated leg spinner and in some of the games he's played of late, he's illustrated how hard he can thump a ball.

Ryan Murray, Carl Mumba and Mashinge need to be playing regularly, end of.
When in doubt, listen to Oasis chaps....

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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by zimbos_05 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:15 pm

I think everyone is saying the same thing. The selections and starting XI makes no sense. This is why blame goes to selectors and coach.

We need to be picking the right players for the right format. Unfortunately, selectors and coach have no damn clue.

The main difference is that people like encore want the selections to be their old mates and players who are past their sell by date. He also wants the players to be of a certain colour and believes that the administration are angels who are doing gods work and that the whites are to blame for all of the problems with ZC.

I think that's a good enough summation.

Now we wait for his elongated rabble about stats or something about Elton scoring 40 in a T20 10 years ago which makes him better than Bradman.

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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by cricket_22001 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:18 pm

How did Chigumbura's bowling become a topic?
Fact- he hasn't taken an international wicket since 2015/16. And that is in any format. My source is statsguru on cricinfo which anybody can access. I'm sure it is ratified by the Association of Cricket Statisticians.
In 2016 there was a topic " Chigumbura is being marginalised". It was opened by Watermelon & i proved that Chigumbura bowled less as captain than prior to the captaincy. Watermelon responded he had a back injury.
So there!
Chigumbura has a back injury which explains his lack of bowling the last 4 years. So we all lament the lost talent. Time to move on.
Regarding the all black South African team to beat Australia/England/India in a test match.
Thank you, troll for a very vague premise.
In the law of probability, that squad may very well win a game. And if a million chimpanzees were put in a room with a million typewriters, one will write a novel. That too, is the law of probability.
But since the chance of that squad playing a test together is somewhat remote, we will never know. So, end of topic.
Googly, you called this troll a spin doctor but he's delivering straight breaks most of the forum are playing blind folded. In my humble opinion, you give it too much credit. And we all give it too much time.
I'm sure everyone would ignore it if there was a normal cricket season taking place.

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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by Googly » Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:25 pm

Ya but do you know why I react?
What Encore does is identical to the political rhetoric I see on all the twitter feeds I follow. One has to follow them to keep the finger on the pulse. I’m engaged in a quest to understand whether or not they believe what they write, it’s like the search for the Holy Grail.

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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by encore » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:38 pm

When ZIM famously lost to Kenya in '03, Andy, Grant, AC and Wishart all batted in the top 4. Grant and Marillier were 5th and 6th change bowlers.

When ZIM famously lost to Bangladesh in '04, Grant and Carlisle were in the top 3, and the next most trusted Taibu was at 4. Grant bowled at 6th change after Ray Price.

However, in a crucial CWC qualifier, against lowly UAE, a batsman who has been paid a ridiculous amount of money, batted at number 4, with Williams, Raza and Ervine - all considered the "best batsmen Zimbabwe cannot do without" at 5, 6 and 7 respectively. IN A MATCH REDUCED TO 40 OVERS!!! Cremer - captain and champion bowler of the side - bowled at 5th change, after Raza - in the 16th over with UAE 75/1! Rain forecasted for the match, early wickets crucial.

Where is the structure, clarity and accountability in that when you go on to continue to do the same against IRE and NED? It could be argued that combined, the ZIM side that lost to UAE had the better 7 batsmen compared to both those sides.

I have never ever seen such utter stupidity tolerated and condoned as much as this forum does on that UAE disaster. You would never have this attitude towards your NZ, IND, AUS and ENG, and neither would your journalists and analysts. It was downright rank foolishness and cowardice by the guilty players, who should all hang their heads in shame.

And I can never ever accept anyone trying to blame ZC - Board and Individuals for such nonsense. Never!

Imagine a foolish shop assistant or floor worker bieng foolish and reckless in Social media - it goes viral, the brand takes a hit, stocks fall, big customers disassociate themselves, but fingers are pointed at the leadership. What PR management and action when the employee is entitled to labour laws and rights? It's the digital age, horse has bolted!

So let's be realistic here. Mlotshwa, Kirsty Coventry, Dave Ellman-Brown and Vince Hogg knew Taylor and Jarvis were on huge sums of money, they were brought over to secure two worlds cups, one has already failed with plenty money lost, and now the 2nd one was more promising, plus some seniors were in any case likely to leave after the CWC Qualifiers failed or following the inevitable disappointing CWC if they qualified. And what did they do? They deliberately endangered that very program.

ZIM who just beat a decent T20 side away in AFG (and strongly pushed both AFG & BD in all games), should've been playing top cricket against a quality side like India plus the quaifiers - with their top T20 batsmen Mire, Hami and Elton in that XI alongside the others, not losing to Singapore & Nepal with Chatara and Taylor rested!

Mukuhlani is not responsible for that, and you can try and argue that fact for centuries but that is a FACT and TRUTH!


You all know fully well how much ZIM get from ICC, yet you can't individually draw up your own spreadsheet and factor in fat international player salaries, domestic player salaries, expenses rentals, other franchise/province grants etc, inward and outward tours, lack of sponsorship and TV rights, highly reduced admin packages, controlled loan repayments, - all for close to 3 years now, plus top support given to the pampered players who pick and choose which domestic games to play, and yet you still want to just point fingers about hands in the cookie jar and poor management with proof of nothing, not even a reasonable estimate or projection in your head?

3 years in a long time, so is 2yrs for the exorbitant returning guys. What is their excuse? Mukhuhlani? Bvute and Chingoka make Jarvis and Chatara concede 11rpo at the death against low opposition? Williams score 2, 0, 2, and spinners bowl first after heavy rain on a wet pitch? :roll:

If I'm a troll, racist or ZC sympathiser for such views then so be it. You know better. What can I possibly argue with people who believe dropping Raza who has an International T20 Strike Rate of 105 batting at an Avg of 13 with just one 50 in 30 innings, and has collected just 11 wickets at a SR of 0 wickets per innings leaks 8rpo - against exclusively junk opposition is a disaster when dropped because he is one of ZIM's best players, but Chigumbura with a fabulous record and just a month older than him, considered old, spent and a burden that must go, despite just winning you a match which has been rare lately; and Kasuza/Roy Kaia less deserving of same 30 junk inninings.

Turns out, under-19s who displayed vague promises compared Jongwe, Mavuta and Mashinge, offer higher probabilities of success than than they do. Again who am I to argue. Let's move on.
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