SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

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Googly
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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by Googly » Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:16 pm

encore wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:59 am
sloandog wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:19 am
I think Regis has some potential in T20 Cricket, from what I saw during his explosive 48. Same with Mutombodzi. Clearly an underrated leg spinner and in some of the games he's played of late, he's illustrated how hard he can thump a ball.

Ryan Murray, Carl Mumba and Mashinge need to be playing regularly, end of.
I agree entirely with the bold part. That's common sense.

However, I disagree completely in that Regis and Mutombodzi(and Mutumbami) do not belong in T20Is. ZIM have other options. ODIs yes they are ok, not good, but in the top 4, not lower at that.

We all speak past each other sometimes, but that's because player and succession management is not something everyone here understands professionally, particularly around team balance. eg, can you replace Jacques Kallis? NO, so effectively you'll need two players. You have a budget, and a number fo contracted players to carry you through the season. Money and resources are involved. Be diligent and deliberate.

In ZIM defined roles have been lacking, hence the problems. Hami and Mire left, so openers have to be replaced, except Mire was batting low when he left. So who/what exactly are we replacing? This is why I say this now has to change. I'm not saying bracket players, but International Cricket is the highest form of the game, so have specific roles and suitable candidates filling them.

In Hami I had lot a lot of experience lost. Taylor has moved up one spot, which sorts out my on eopener issue. Except, he's not a blistering batsman. There is Kamunhukamwe, but a reserved batsmen and a youngster who can be tied do is not ideal, unless I drop Taylor down the order which is also not ideal. So I bring back Zhuwao. Kamunhukamwe will be in the squad and get a few games along the way. Good. Solved! Give it a few Series!

Taylor can keep, but I have spinners and medium pacers to stand up to. So I can't afford to be desperate and and turn to him(except in a T20I emergency. Regis and Mutumbami are there? Tests and ODIs they're ok. But definitely not T20I batting material. There is Murray, except he's in school. Let me use Sauramba - he's aggressive, more mature now has played handy knocks plus has potential. Good! Solved. Give it a few Series.

Elton is there(but not bowling). Which of Jongwe or Mashinge is best/able to replace him? But hang on, they are both seamer-bowling allrounders not solid batters yet. So no they can't replace him. Instead they should now compete with Chatara, Jarvis, Mumba, Mpofu etc. So I'm forced to fork out a lot to bring in Mire. Good. Solved. But now I've turned Mire into an opener, who's not bowling, and I've got both Elton and Mire??? Anyway Mire is back batting low and bowling, but has now left again. Back to square one. Years and money "wasted". Agreed! Why, you're ranked 15th inT20s and 12/13th in ODIs - with neither Jongwe/Mashinge developed, and Masvaure overweight.

Cremer left. He was a good LOI spinner, and you need good spinners in those formats. My seamers are not world class, so that means two spinners - attacking(Rashid) and defensive(Mujeeb) - which also effectively leaves Madziva out in the cold. So I invest in Mavuta and Wellington. Plus Mavuta can hold a bat and is a big hitter. Good. Solved! Give it a few Series.

I need at least two frontline seamers in LOIs. Neither Jarvis nor Chatara have the pace to develop into complete death bowlers, so I can't afford to have both in the XI, especially if they can't bat. So they compete directly, and I turn to Mumba and Ngarava. Good. Solved! Give it a few Series.

I failed to replace Elton/Mire, so I have an excellent T20I batsman but I'm short a bowler. I can't compromise on the quality of my bowling. Do I have any batsman who is competent enough to bowl spin consistently at this level, since I don't have one who bowls seam? I like Mutombodzi and Burl. Can they do it? No! They'll be taken apart, and are not options if one of my main bowlers is struggles and can't bow at the death. But I do have Milton Shumba, Liam Roche and Wesley Madhevere. They bring the same skill set - spinners who can bat, but are more polished as spinners. The former two already have a lot of u19 experience and have played a few FC games doing very well. But all 3 are not ready, so we arrange preferences for them in a lot more FC first team exposure, plus priority A/XI exposure batting top 6 and no lower than 5th change. We still have Chisoro and he remains Zimbabwe's best option as a spinner who can bat a bit - having won games for ZIM already. Those guys will be ready by the time Chisoro leaves in a season or two. Good. Solved!

Now, I still need batsmen. In Zhuwao and Elton(and Sauramba) only I'm still very very light for T20Is hitting. 3 of my batsmen are all over 30, so I can't afford to bring in another one. Kasuza and Musakanda have delivered in Domestic T20s and Africa Cup. Against top quality bowlers Musakanda may battle to hit from ball one if a Zhuwao falls early, so Kasuza goes in ahead of him.


T20Is: Taylor, Zhuwao, Kasuza, Musakanda, Elton, Sauramba(wk), Chisoro, Mavuta, Mumba, Chatara, Wellington (Kamunhukamwe, Mutombodzi, Ngarava, Roche, Jongwe)

In ODIs Zhuwao might not do, I've got a Championship to impress in so no need for that risk. Taylor is the best batsman remaining so again I can't risk him opening. That's means I've got 2 vacancies to open. Burl and Kamunhukamwe are good fits, and I get a decent left-right combo out of them. Craig can continue to deliver for me from 3, and Taylor my security. Sauramba might comeshort in ODIs, so I turn to Regis and Mutumbami. With Taylor in the middle order and as immobile as Kasuza, Musakanda will keep the scoreboard ticking better. I'm not confident in Chatara lasting 5 days, and I don't have an attacking spinner I can trust to balance run-rate and striking so I yield to control.

ODIs: Burl, Kamunhukamwe, Craig, Taylor, Musakanda, Regis(wk), Chisoro, Mavuta, Mumba, Chatara, Wellington (Kasuza, Roche, Jongwe, Ngarava, Mutumbami(wk))

Hami, Vusi and Mawoyo are no longer options to open for me in Tests.

TESTs: Burl, Moor, Craig, Taylor, Kasuza, Musakanda, Chakabva(wk), Jongwe, Jarvis, Mumba, Wellington (Chari, Roy Kaia, Mashinge, Ndlovu, Ngarava, Mutumbami(wk))

NB: I know some will be swift to note the absence of Raza and Williams. You know I always say Williams is a decent player across all formats, but a 33yr old failure under pressure who will never win ZIM meaningful games. While Raza is poor in T20s, he is a decent ODI player. However, he's not worth investing in as an opener in Tests & ODIs ahead of the youngsters, since he hasn't been doing it anyway, and middle order is needed for younger batsmen.

The key here is to pick and choose whom you want(even Williams and Raza), but factor in everything - role, succession, development, specialisation, balance, contracts etc. Eg you can't be picking and giving an unproven 29 year Jakiel a contract when you have a young competent Mashinge. Or saying Regis is a T20 batsman because he smashed UAE/NEP/SIN so he can open the batting and Kamunhukamwe in reserve. What is the point of having all 3 of Chatara, Madziva and Jarvis who bowl medium in an XI simply because Burl, Williams and Raza cover the spin, then you expect to win a cricket match at this level? Be professional in approach. It has always been known that Mutombodzi can bowl great leg spin, since long back in the West Indies tour in 2013. But Mavuta, at that young age has grown so much that he can genuinely develop into a competent balanced allround LOI & Test spinner.
You have no idea bud. None.

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zimbos_05
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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by zimbos_05 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:08 am

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:38 pm
TapsC wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:12 pm
QUESTION. Are we getting worse or are the other teams getting better? Maybe we just stagnated.
What if I put it to you, that is one and the same?

There is a certain train that the cricket world is riding, but we've taken the bus. We are set aside from the cricketing worlds evolutions.
I would agree with this. Only thing I would add is that the bus we've taken is a combi that uses cow power to steer it.

Googly
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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by Googly » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:04 am

Both. There’s some serious divergence here. The levels of cricket are going through the roof and we’re going backwards. That heave of Reggie’s last night will get you dropped permanently from a lot of sides unless you’ve got a few recent hundreds in the bank. Those two young seamers were woeful. I guess they were under pressure and we know how us Zimbos deal with that :lol:
They’ve come this far so I suppose they should get another couple of shots, but it doesn’t look too good. Let’s at least see Mashinge and Munyonga have a bat, open with them both, why not? At least let’s pretend it’s a development side.

Googly
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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by Googly » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:33 am

https://www.icc-cricket.com/about/membe ... ociate/142

Cricket in Singapore is a lot bigger than it is here, should we be surprised that they beat us? There will be more cricket played in a neighborhood than in the ten schools scattered throughout a country that is several thousand times bigger than Singapore.
The reality is that we could be replaced by any number of associate sides and nobody would miss us, it would be like a family member dying of old age in a home, the overriding emotion would be relief.
I think Mukhulani must take some of his money from his personal hobby and bribe the ICC to reinstate us next week.
Can you imagine what Ireland or Scotland would do with 10 mil a year! There are 250 cricket clubs in Scotland and ICC give them $1.5m a year. If they had to rely on ICC funding to run their club cricket they’d need about a trillion dollars :lol:

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zimbos_05
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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by zimbos_05 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:05 am

Googly wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:33 am
https://www.icc-cricket.com/about/membe ... ociate/142

Cricket in Singapore is a lot bigger than it is here, should we be surprised that they beat us? There will be more cricket played in a neighborhood than in the ten schools scattered throughout a country that is several thousand times bigger than Singapore.
The reality is that we could be replaced by any number of associate sides and nobody would miss us, it would be like a family member dying of old age in a home, the overriding emotion would be relief.
I think Mukhulani must take some of his money from his personal hobby and bribe the ICC to reinstate us next week.
Can you imagine what Ireland or Scotland would do with 10 mil a year! There are 250 cricket clubs in Scotland and ICC give them $1.5m a year. If they had to rely on ICC funding to run their club cricket they’d need about a trillion dollars :lol:
It puts in to perspective the achievement to get us test status. We did not have as big a population nor the support, but those guys made it happen. They pioneered something and made it in to something truly successful, and we never really had a population to support that. We were on course to be one of the best teams around and it fell due to blinded racism. Sad really.

Other countries are waking up and seeing the ability for their country to be successful, and they are not waiting in line. Players can also see an opportunity to play for these smaller countries too and are taking it, which will essentially see these countries become stronger and better. There's nothing to countries like Singapore from having a few more Aussie based players in the future for sure.

Googly
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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by Googly » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:30 am

The actual problem is the ICC. They’re a law unto themselves. Imagine the shady deals those guys have been involved in! I was looking at their website just now
https://www.icc-cricket.com/about/the-i ... ture/board

They’re about as plausible as ZANU and ANC. I see Mukhulani and Makoni are still listed.

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zimbos_05
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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by zimbos_05 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:39 pm

Googly wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:30 am
The actual problem is the ICC. They’re a law unto themselves. Imagine the shady deals those guys have been involved in! I was looking at their website just now
https://www.icc-cricket.com/about/the-i ... ture/board

They’re about as plausible as ZANU and ANC. I see Mukhulani and Makoni are still listed.
Even with a messed up organisation like ICC, countries like New Zealand are showing that with a well run organisation, you can succeed. NZ does not have our population and everyone is more in to Union and League, yet they've made two world cup finals, and constantly produce quality players.

We became pretty big with not much. It all comes down to proper administration. I started doing my coaching courses and the level of professionalism and organisation and set up that CA has, I know for a fact ZC has nothing close and it's terribly sad how much damage some are willing to do for their own personal gain.

Googly
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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by Googly » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:43 pm

170 000 registered cricketers in NZ.
I hope there’s no double cross coming with that Singaporean ICC CEO Sawhney. When Mukhulani went running to him to get us suspended he was relying on a relationship with him that we don’t really know about and let’s hope he hasn’t misjudged it.

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encore
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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by encore » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:15 pm

brmtaylor.com admin wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:44 pm
hhm, you're right. It was disgraceful that we lost to Ireland and Holland. But we started losing to them nearly 10 years ago. Over time we just get worse and worse, and our expectations get lower and lower yet we still fail to reach them.

It's like each time we drop a level, instead of bullying the next rung down we just sink to their level. Actually it's worse than that, because we don't sink to their level - we choke at their level, hence a few years ago we started losing to Afghanistan, and now we lose to UAE and Singapore.
Let's be realistic though. Ireland and Holland had international Class players ageas ago. I mean Netherlands had Ryan Neil ten Doeschate, Dirk Nannes and Tom Cooper. They would have thumped Heath, Brandes and Andy. Ireland had plenty County/Shield heavyweights. Morgan, Joyce, Rankin, Porterfield, Stirling, Trent, a wily young Dockrell etc. Let's be realistic, cmpared to IRE and NED, the Hami, Taibu, Elton, Utseya, BT, Panyangara ZIM have overacheived. Give credit to Chingoka and Bvute. If I was Ireland I'd be embarrassed to be even in the H2H with a ZIM that's largely been immature in comparison with all the even younger players coming in. Unless of course we can all finally agree that Logan Cup is stronger than County cricket.

I think that's why Bundu and Whatmore were sacked. Mangongo would've beaten all the nonsense out of the cowering fools calling themselves internationals.

Anyway, some of those losses are self inflicted. We once dropped QdK for Vilas, so believe me, there's no harm in picking Kamungozi and Nyumbu ahead of Utseya, Price and Cremer if it'll make Bangladesh(IRE, NED & AFG) look better than they are. ZIM would've beaten AFG if Whatmore was a little bit more respectful and didn't rest the big guns too much.

Which Zimbabwean wicket do you think Lamichhane treasures? None! Sean included! That says a lot. This is exactly why RTD retired from Netherlands.

But discounting everything I wrote, and things like age, what prevents Hami and BT from dominating the Associates like a RTD did? Funny enough Cremer used to love the small sides - and was playfully laidback in his approach too.
Voice of reason.

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encore
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Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore

Post by encore » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:30 pm

Googly you can be fantasically exhilarating I'll give you that, but you're absolutely horrible at spelling doom. If it were up to you Thanos would have been a sloth that's high.
Voice of reason.

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