Logan Cup 2019/20 R3 Tuskers v Eagles & Rhinos v ACHPP

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jaybro
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Re: Logan Cup 2019/20 R3 Tuskers v Eagles & Rhinos v ACHPP

Post by jaybro »

TapsC wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:35 am

My question would be how much more will Chisoro offer than Williams? The type of pitch we play on is very important as well.

Ironically I’ve had this exact debate with Hhm except he was arguing that Chisoro should be picked instead of Williams, where in this instance you’re saying Chisoro shouldn’t be picked because Williams does the same job with the ball.

This was also white ball related not red ball cricket, my position then was they didn’t need Chisoro (as a second spinner to Cremer) when they already had Williams.

In a Test match scenario you could definitely run with Williams & Raza as the spinners, but IMO Chisoro is a better spinner than Williams & would be more effective.
Last edited by jaybro on Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jaybro
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Re: Logan Cup 2019/20 R3 Tuskers v Eagles & Rhinos v ACHPP

Post by jaybro »

Chisoro gets his 5th wicket ( 6th for the match ) to go with his ton
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Re: Logan Cup 2019/20 R3 Tuskers v Eagles & Rhinos v ACHPP

Post by Googly »

C’mon lads, there’s surely no debate between Williams and Chisoro?
Williams offers way too much with the bat.

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Re: Logan Cup 2019/20 R3 Tuskers v Eagles & Rhinos v ACHPP

Post by jaybro »

Googly wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:02 am
C’mon lads, there’s surely no debate between Williams and Chisoro?
Williams offers way too much with the bat.
That’s not what we’re debating

The exact opposite actually

We’re debating whether or not you need Chisoro because Williams can or can’t do the same job with the ball.
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Re: Logan Cup 2019/20 R3 Tuskers v Eagles & Rhinos v ACHPP

Post by foreignfield »

jaybro wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:41 pm
Googly wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:02 am
C’mon lads, there’s surely no debate between Williams and Chisoro?
Williams offers way too much with the bat.
That’s not what we’re debating

The exact opposite actually

We’re debating whether or not you need Chisoro because Williams can or can’t do the same job with the ball.
I don't know, I just don't rate Chisoro. His one weapon is that he can get some bounce but there's not much else. As a spinner who doesn't turn the ball he's not accurate enough to be successful at this level (he's not Ray Price), imho. Plus our opponents generally play spin well anyway; they won't need a whole lot of analysis to discover that Chisoro is a converted seamer who neither spins nor seams nor does much else with the ball.

Williams can both do a holding job and get wickets. Add Raza and, hopefully, Burl with his explorative leggies, and I think we are covered in the spin department if the curators can produce something like the pitch we beat Pak on.

That said, I'd love to eat my words if and when Chisoro runs through the Sri Lankans on a bouncy HSC pitch :)

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Re: Logan Cup 2019/20 R3 Tuskers v Eagles & Rhinos v ACHPP

Post by jaybro »

My concerns regarding having only Raza & Williams as spinners in a test match stem from the last Test v Bangladesh where they couldn’t hold nor penetrate the Bangladesh batting lineup.

The pitch really is key imo, on a helpful or slow surface they can be very effective as we have seen, but on a flat deck against good players of spin they will struggle. Whether or not Chisoro would do a better job is very much debatable, but imo he’s the best spinner now Cremer is gone.

I agree Zimbabwe’s best chance of victory is on a similar deck to the one they beat Pakistan in 2013 where they can play 4 seamers.
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Re: Logan Cup 2019/20 R3 Tuskers v Eagles & Rhinos v ACHPP

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

I agree that Chisoro is the best full time ‘spinner’ we have but honestly, what difference is he from Williams?
If he is better, it’s only minimal a difference.

There is only so much you can do by throwing gentle non spinning left arm darts into a test bat. There’s only so much tricks you can possess.

You’d actually be better having a Raza/Williams/Burl type cowling combo to strengthen the batting UNLESS it’s such a spinning pitch that he takes the place of a third pace bowler.

Even then, I’d almost be tempted to go someone like Mutombodzi just because he offers variety in regards to wrist spin.

This is where we are really missing Cremer.
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