This Team by now would have been in business if Streak Taibu Combo Continued

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Googly
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Re: This Team by now would have been in business if Streak Taibu Combo Continued

Post by Googly »

The intellect or the balls? :lol:
Ow! :lol:
I’ve got to go and earn a crust but I’ll be back to squash your nonsense later.

Googly
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Re: This Team by now would have been in business if Streak Taibu Combo Continued

Post by Googly »

Zimco wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:48 am
Restricting guns in America would go a long way in the long term to easing race relations.
I always thought that until now. America is on the verge of something very ugly and only cool heads will stop something kicking off. If Trump was already in his second term he’d have squashed this in a day, but they know that, a minority would rather watch it burn than risk him coming after them. There’s too many guns to ever recall them and the good people now need to tool up.

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zimbos_05
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Re: This Team by now would have been in business if Streak Taibu Combo Continued

Post by zimbos_05 »

How the heck did a conversation on black rights and civil liberties turn in to "Islam is evil and Moslems are the worst"? ....

Googly wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:13 am
you perpetually make outrageous statements that can be refuted all day long.
Haha, the irony.

Zimco
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Re: This Team by now would have been in business if Streak Taibu Combo Continued

Post by Zimco »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:02 am
Googly wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:13 am
I don’t want to get into this with you Kriterion, you perpetually make outrageous statements that can be refuted all day long.
I didn't ask if you wanted to get into this or not. You got into this on your own. I could let you off the hook but then how boring would that be? When someone opens a door they don't have the intellect or the balls to walk through, its always fun to see exactly where it goes.

The liberation of slaves (1200+ years before 1865):
Quran al Baqarah 177 (2:177)

Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but [true] righteousness is [in] one who believes in Allah, the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask [for help], and for freeing slaves; [and who] establishes prayer and gives zakah; [those who] fulfill their promise when they promise; and [those who] are patient in poverty and hardship and during battle. Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous.

Quran al Ma'idah 89 (5:89)

Allah will not impose blame upon you for what is meaningless in your oaths, but He will impose blame upon you for [breaking] what you intended of oaths. So its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your [own] families or clothing them or the freeing of a slave. But whoever cannot find [or afford it] - then a fast of three days [is required]. That is the expiation for oaths when you have sworn. But guard your oaths. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be grateful.

Quran al Mujadilah 3 (58:3)

And those who pronounce thihar from their wives and then [wish to] go back on what they said - then [there must be] the freeing of a slave before they touch one another. That is what you are admonished thereby; and Allah is Acquainted with what you do.
It should be noted, that in all these instances mentioning bondage and freeing people from it, the arabic word being used is "riqab" and not "'abid", which a lot of associated with servitude, as in names like Abdullah, Abdur Razzak, Abdur-Rahim, [Kareem] Abdul-Jabbar.

Now a few on women, with my commentary:
Quran An Nisa 4 (4:4)

And give the women [upon marriage] their [bridal] gifts graciously. But if they give up willingly to you anything of it, then take it in satisfaction and ease.
Pretty self-explanatory.
Quran An Nisa 7 (4:7)

For men is a share of what the parents and close relatives leave, and for women is a share of what the parents and close relatives leave, be it little or much - an obligatory share.
Men inherit twice the share of the women because men are historically tasked with the responsibility of providing for their own families, as well as their parents in old age. Women generally are not (although the Quran doesn't bar them from it).
Quran Al Ahzab 35 (33:35)
Indeed, the Muslim men and Muslim women, the believing men and believing women, the obedient men and obedient women, the truthful men and truthful women, the patient men and patient women, the humble men and humble women, the charitable men and charitable women, the fasting men and fasting women, the men who guard their private parts and the women who do so, and the men who remember Allah often and the women who do so - for them Allah has prepared forgiveness and a great reward.
Firstly, this verse could have easily just said "everything here applies to men and women" in far fewer words. However, the author went out of the way to repeatedly mention men and women (Muslimeena and Muslimati, Mumineena and Muminati, Qaniteena and Qanitati, Sadiqeena and Sadiqati, Sabireena and Sabirati, Kash'ina and Kash'iati, Mutasaddiqeena and Mutasaddiqati, Saa'imeena and Saa'imati, Hafidheena and Hafidhati, Dhakireena and Dhakirati). I believe this was done to highlight the equivalence in expectation, responsibility, reward, and inherent equality of men and women. I see no other logically compelling reason for this verse to be composed as it is.

Secondly, but no less important it highlights the core Islamic values (faith, obedience, truthfulness, perseverance, humility, charitability, chastity, and God-consciousness/gratefulness) according to the Quran. Violence, intolerance, racism aren't listed.
Just because it's written/outlawed in the quran doesn't mean slavery wasn't practiced by Arabs after the writing of the quran. I am not specifying Arab people in particular just pointing out that slavery is a human issue not a race issue.

Kriterion_BD
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Re: This Team by now would have been in business if Streak Taibu Combo Continued

Post by Kriterion_BD »

Zimco wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:08 am
Just because it's written/outlawed in the quran doesn't mean slavery wasn't practiced by Arabs after the writing of the quran. I am not specifying Arab people in particular just pointing out that slavery is a human issue not a race issue.
I agree with you. That was to enlighten googly who suggested that slavery was Islamic as opposed to Arab. Within that, the racial aspect of it was a European innovation as far as I know. Slavery to Arabs wasn't a racial institution but a socio-economic one. An institution not entirely dissimilar to that which exists in most parts of the world to the present day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjtuZBykSzM (Noreaga - Blood Money Part 3)

Kriterion_BD
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Re: This Team by now would have been in business if Streak Taibu Combo Continued

Post by Kriterion_BD »

Googly wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:49 am
The intellect or the balls? :lol:
Ow! :lol:
I’ve got to go and earn a crust but I’ll be back to squash your nonsense later.
This should be one of the easier internet squabbles I've ever had.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjtuZBykSzM (Noreaga - Blood Money Part 3)

Kriterion_BD
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Re: This Team by now would have been in business if Streak Taibu Combo Continued

Post by Kriterion_BD »

zimbos_05 wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:01 am
How the heck did a conversation on black rights and civil liberties turn in to "Islam is evil and Moslems are the worst"? ....
I bet you he's looking up hadith to refute the Quran as we speak. Its a playbook with the same one play haha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjtuZBykSzM (Noreaga - Blood Money Part 3)

Zimco
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Re: This Team by now would have been in business if Streak Taibu Combo Continued

Post by Zimco »

Those were interesting passages from the quran. Thanks for posting. Interesting article on cricinfo from Michael Carberry. https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id ... sh-cricket

I didn't see any of what he speaks about at the club level. Lots of the overseas players were black and treated well. But at the county level, perhaps it is different. I cant think of many black coaches or executives but I think it may take time for them to come through. Michael Holding and others are certainly respected.

Kriterion_BD
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Re: This Team by now would have been in business if Streak Taibu Combo Continued

Post by Kriterion_BD »

You're welcome! :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjtuZBykSzM (Noreaga - Blood Money Part 3)

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