Match Thread | Bangladesh vs Zimbabwe 3rd ODI 2020 | Sylhet

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sloandog
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Re: Match Thread | Bangladesh vs Zimbabwe 3rd ODI 2020 | Sylhet

Post by sloandog » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:09 am

Look at Andrew Macdonald from Oz. Was he a good player? Nah, not really. A gritty all rounder who could chip in. But at only 38 he’s regarding as one of the best coaches in the world.

But yea, Hondo as the bowling coach still is beyond ridiculous.

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Re: Match Thread | Bangladesh vs Zimbabwe 3rd ODI 2020 | Sylhet

Post by ZIMDOGGY » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:50 am

Ok just to keep the argument simple.
Hondo, who was not a good international bowler, is not a good bowling coach and hasn’t been for 5 years.

I can only presume it’s because he is part of the clique, kisses and licks ass clean as Jaybro said, and is cheap.

I’m with Googly when he wonders out loud why Brent doesn’t have the job?

He has a track record of success with teams and bowlers, is local and probably nearly as cheap.
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Re: Match Thread | Bangladesh vs Zimbabwe 3rd ODI 2020 | Sylhet

Post by ZIMDOGGY » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:51 am

I also have a suspicion that KJ might be a good bowling coach one day.
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Re: Match Thread | Bangladesh vs Zimbabwe 3rd ODI 2020 | Sylhet

Post by Kriterion_BD » Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:35 am

After a very long time away (busy with work and life)...my podcast is back!

This is BD centric, so there isn't much about ZIM in the nearly hour-long episode, but I do talk about the series a bit. if there's anyone with any interest in BD cricket, please check it out so I can get more hits! :lol:

https://aewahid.podbean.com/e/the-crick ... de-2020_1/
(my cricket podcast) https://aewahid.podbean.com

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Re: Match Thread | Bangladesh vs Zimbabwe 3rd ODI 2020 | Sylhet

Post by zimbos_05 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:57 am

sloan has a point in the sense that the average players can be the best coaches. There are enough examples of this.

In saying that though, Hondo has had more than enough time to prove he is a good coach and has proven he is not up to the task of being an International bowling coach. As nice a guy as he may be, he has the job purely on who he knows.

What have our Zim coaches done to obtain their credentials? Have they done extensive coaching courses and clinics and if so, where and who did they do it with? Have they continued to further that coaching and education or are they just taking the certificate and stopping there?

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Re: Match Thread | Bangladesh vs Zimbabwe 3rd ODI 2020 | Sylhet

Post by ZIMDOGGY » Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:18 am

zimbos_05 wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:57 am
sloan has a point in the sense that the average players can be the best coaches. There are enough examples of this.
The point I was trying to make was that yes I fully agree that a coach doesn’t need to be a great of the game, BUT, it’s because they don’t have the physicality or skills to make it, but they do have the knowledge. If they did have the physical part of it, the ‘tools’ they would be great, if they had the knowledge to improve an international bowler.

My issue with Hondo is he DID have the tools. He was capable of bowling international pace, had been part of a solid system, Yet he was still rubbish. It’s almost like enlisting Shaun Tait to teach line and length to Hazelwood.

Someone like Streak has both the knowledge and the physicality and it showed. Ideal coach.

Someone like Brent clearly has the knowledge but not quite the tools to make it. Yet despite that, he carved out a reasonable career as a frontline bowler bowling 120 km/hr.
That’s also an ideal coach, more so.

But how good can a guy with the physique, the speed, but none of the accomplishment teach bowlers better than him? What was his excuse for not being better? And like others have said, what’s his credentials?

I need to point out that Honda was in the team purely as a quota player in the early 00’s. It was a time when they had a lot of white talent and quotas were enforced.
When the 19s blacks popped up a couple of years later, Hondo struggled to make a dent in the Logan Cup, a few years later he lost his spot and drifted away.

Is that a guy you want showing KJ and Chatara the way forward?
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Re: Match Thread | Bangladesh vs Zimbabwe 3rd ODI 2020 | Sylhet

Post by jaybro » Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:40 am

Hondo was bowling coach when Mangongo was sacked in 2015 before the World Cup, how he has the job again now is hard to understand
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Re: Match Thread | Bangladesh vs Zimbabwe 3rd ODI 2020 | Sylhet

Post by sloandog » Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:48 am

Because he’s cheap and he’s in with the boys. Same as Stuart. Both were average international cricketers.

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Re: Match Thread | Bangladesh vs Zimbabwe 3rd ODI 2020 | Sylhet

Post by jaybro » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:07 am

sloandog wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:48 am
Because he’s cheap and he’s in with the boys. Same as Stuart. Both were average international cricketers.
Stuey hasn’t been around that long so I’m happy to give him a go, he seemed to do a good job with the ZRS & the Eagles.

Although he seems to go against Dogg’s theory, as Stuey had the tools and didn’t ever produce nearly enough.
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Re: Match Thread | Bangladesh vs Zimbabwe 3rd ODI 2020 | Sylhet

Post by ZIMDOGGY » Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:43 am

jaybro wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:07 am
sloandog wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:48 am
Because he’s cheap and he’s in with the boys. Same as Stuart. Both were average international cricketers.
Stuey hasn’t been around that long so I’m happy to give him a go, he seemed to do a good job with the ZRS & the Eagles.

Although he seems to go against Dogg’s theory, as Stuey had the tools and didn’t ever produce nearly enough.
Batting is a little different, it’s psychological. I haven’t formed a proper opinion of what a good coach looks like there.
Stuey did have technique and skill from memory. He just couldn’t apply it on the world stage. So in terms of technical coaching, I think he is qualified? If that’s what you are looking for. But I’d also argue that you shouldn’t be teaching technique to international players. If so, your problems are very very bad by nature.
What Stuey failed on was he had no ticker. Same with Vusi. Mentally weak. The same reason I argued Will Pucovski will never make it, in the thread about him in the other cricket forum. Zimbabwe’s first wave of international batsmen all seemed technically prepared but not mentally.

Some of the greatest bats had the weirdest or worst techniques, but they were mentally tough.

Lara and Steve Smith have very bizarre techniques.

Steve Waugh was very limited as a batsman but was mentally unbreakable and a thinker.

I’ve seen random Facebook videos of club cricketers with absolutely flawless techniques, but who are they? No one. Just solid club cricketers.

Psychological training I think will be better for the batsmen. When Prosper Utseya brought along a witch doctor to the under 19 World Cup, he had the right end goal of mental toughness with a stupid and brainless uneducated African application of it.

A sports psychologist is what is needed I think. Take out he defeatist attitude, and the Zimbabwean ability to lose 6 wickets when 5 runs were needed or whatever that ridiculous chase was.
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