Logan Cup 2020 - 21 : Discussion

[Zimco]

Sometimes when I see some of these players walk out I wonder if they would have been able to deal with a tough, competitive environment with real racial quotas and where results actually matter like South Africa. Too many people just decide to walk out when the going gets tough yet as fans we have had to endure so many disappointments. Which other full member has a situation like that besides us? Cremer can even plot a comeback despite walking out on us for 2 years. The mentality is so weak

South Africa has had heaps of walk out like Kyle Abbott. What is your point? Also the Zimbabwe economy does a lot of pushing people away.

In that interview cremer said he left cause his wives career is longer and I doubt zimair is what it used to be. I imagine it must have bee tough for cremer. Big personal sacrifice for the betterment of his family.

[Zimco]

With Cremer,
He’s starting to get a bit sentimental it seems but you can’t just give up international test cricket for two years and come back equal or better. It’s just doesn’t happen. Leg spinner is a fine art and you need to be well tuned like a guitar and oiled.

When Cremer got belted in that Arab tournament a few months back that was no surprise to me.

That’s what I hate about zim cricket when I read about all these players coming and going.

So much momentum has been killed in stop start retirements and unretirements. Bligs, Carlisle were on their way to doing good things and came back after all their built up momentum stopped and they were useless.

Cremer the same.

All these young players that decide to take a three year break after the under 19s to go to uni (not part time or online like other sports) aren’t a lot better.

Whatever made you good enough to dominate under 19s level will be hard to sustain by playing club cricket or uni cricket.

The big obvious exception is the guys that go off to play county or first class cricket elsewhere and come back as good or better. But any idiot can figure out why that is.

My ultimate message to players is if you walk out you’re doing no one any favours to your cricketing career and to think very long and hard.
The uni guys especially can have it all if they play it better.

Yeah but blokes don't want to be selling scratch cards at 30 after they retired from FC/didn't make it for Zim. If FC in Zim paid I guarantee more blokes would stay and Zim would be better.

What Zim should do is get Zim blokes who play county and have a UK passport but aren't good enough to play for England a contract (money) and allow them to pay county in the season and select them when there is no county. I assume that would be allowed? Only reason Taylor and Jarvis couldn't do that was as they were kollpak I assume. Steal these players back.

[ZIMDOGGY]

With Cremer,
He’s starting to get a bit sentimental it seems but you can’t just give up international test cricket for two years and come back equal or better. It’s just doesn’t happen. Leg spinner is a fine art and you need to be well tuned like a guitar and oiled.

When Cremer got belted in that Arab tournament a few months back that was no surprise to me.

That’s what I hate about zim cricket when I read about all these players coming and going.

So much momentum has been killed in stop start retirements and unretirements. Bligs, Carlisle were on their way to doing good things and came back after all their built up momentum stopped and they were useless.

Cremer the same.

All these young players that decide to take a three year break after the under 19s to go to uni (not part time or online like other sports) aren’t a lot better.

Whatever made you good enough to dominate under 19s level will be hard to sustain by playing club cricket or uni cricket.

The big obvious exception is the guys that go off to play county or first class cricket elsewhere and come back as good or better. But any idiot can figure out why that is.

My ultimate message to players is if you walk out you’re doing no one any favours to your cricketing career and to think very long and hard.
The uni guys especially can have it all if they play it better.

Yeah but blokes don't want to be selling scratch cards at 30 after they retired from FC/didn't make it for Zim. If FC in Zim paid I guarantee more blokes would stay and Zim would be better.

What Zim should do is get Zim blokes who play county and have a UK passport but aren't good enough to play for England a contract (money) and allow them to pay county in the season and select them when there is no county. I assume that would be allowed? Only reason Taylor and Jarvis couldn't do that was as they were kollpak I assume. Steal these players back.

But like I have said a hundred times, you don’t need to choose either/or.
Why is this just a zimbo thing?
In other countries and sports (US college sport aside) you don’t see players drop out of squads to go do uni.
When’s the last time you heard a Pakistani or Bangladeshi do that?

I’ve lost count of over the years how many feel good low key media stories there has been of various NRL players (average salary 400k a year before rep payments) do some sort of trade or uni study during the week.
Athletes have a fair amount of downtime. This is especially true for Zim cricket.
An average degree is 3 or 4 years.
Study load per week is meant to be around 10 hours, but let’s face it most people wouldn’t do more than 5.
A part time degree will halve the study load and double the length of time taken.

So are you trying to tell me these ambitious young cricketers who don’t want to sell crack after their career is done can’t train hard, play hard, and set aside 2/3 hours a week for study?
Why can other sports and countries do it but not our guys?

I remember there was one bulldogs NRL player called Corey Payne who retired at 30 after learning three languages and getting a doctorate of some shit and was a CEO by 34.
Alot of people looked at that with interest because Rugby league players are known for their dopiness! and a professional NRL team has a lot more workload, physical needs and eyes on them than a Zim cricketer.
All this is even more applicable in the Covid world.


The county idea you suggested is Not the worst idea in theory, but it’s not just county these guys play. There’s guys in Australia,SA and Nz too.

I’d push myself to have ZC and other tier two countries exempt from international caps in the first class systems such as England.
Reserve the international spots for world class cricketers and if you are from a test nation ranked below 11, and good enough for county, be treated like a local. Of course, the catch for the county side would be disruptions of their squad when such players are on national duty, but there wouldn’t be a hell of a lot of players that would be doing it, but for those that do, everyone wins.

[Zimco]

With Cremer,
He’s starting to get a bit sentimental it seems but you can’t just give up international test cricket for two years and come back equal or better. It’s just doesn’t happen. Leg spinner is a fine art and you need to be well tuned like a guitar and oiled.

When Cremer got belted in that Arab tournament a few months back that was no surprise to me.

That’s what I hate about zim cricket when I read about all these players coming and going.

So much momentum has been killed in stop start retirements and unretirements. Bligs, Carlisle were on their way to doing good things and came back after all their built up momentum stopped and they were useless.

Cremer the same.

All these young players that decide to take a three year break after the under 19s to go to uni (not part time or online like other sports) aren’t a lot better.

Whatever made you good enough to dominate under 19s level will be hard to sustain by playing club cricket or uni cricket.

The big obvious exception is the guys that go off to play county or first class cricket elsewhere and come back as good or better. But any idiot can figure out why that is.

My ultimate message to players is if you walk out you’re doing no one any favours to your cricketing career and to think very long and hard.
The uni guys especially can have it all if they play it better.

Yeah but blokes don't want to be selling scratch cards at 30 after they retired from FC/didn't make it for Zim. If FC in Zim paid I guarantee more blokes would stay and Zim would be better.

What Zim should do is get Zim blokes who play county and have a UK passport but aren't good enough to play for England a contract (money) and allow them to pay county in the season and select them when there is no county. I assume that would be allowed? Only reason Taylor and Jarvis couldn't do that was as they were kollpak I assume. Steal these players back.

But like I have said a hundred times, you don’t need to choose either/or.
Why is this just a zimbo thing?
In other countries and sports (US college sport aside) you don’t see players drop out of squads to go do uni.
When’s the last time you heard a Pakistani or Bangladeshi do that?

I’ve lost count of over the years how many feel good low key media stories there has been of various NRL players (average salary 400k a year before rep payments) do some sort of trade or uni study during the week.
Athletes have a fair amount of downtime. This is especially true for Zim cricket.
An average degree is 3 or 4 years.
Study load per week is meant to be around 10 hours, but let’s face it most people wouldn’t do more than 5.
A part time degree will halve the study load and double the length of time taken.

So are you trying to tell me these ambitious young cricketers who don’t want to sell crack after their career is done can’t train hard, play hard, and set aside 2/3 hours a week for study?
Why can other sports and countries do it but not our guys?

I remember there was one bulldogs NRL player called Corey Payne who retired at 30 after learning three languages and getting a doctorate of some shit and was a CEO by 34.
Alot of people looked at that with interest because Rugby league players are known for their dopiness! and a professional NRL team has a lot more workload, physical needs and eyes on them than a Zim cricketer.
All this is even more applicable in the Covid world.


The county idea you suggested is Not the worst idea in theory, but it’s not just county these guys play. There’s guys in Australia,SA and Nz too.

I’d push myself to have ZC and other tier two countries exempt from international caps in the first class systems such as England.
Reserve the international spots for world class cricketers and if you are from a test nation ranked below 11, and good enough for county, be treated like a local. Of course, the catch for the county side would be disruptions of their squad when such players are on national duty, but there wouldn’t be a hell of a lot of players that would be doing it, but for those that do, everyone wins.

Cause there aren't any good unis in Zim. I hear the online argument (not sure why the really good players don't take this) but I think the hedge the bet people want to have the experience of uni down south/uk and the really good players in the past like Byrom, Welsh muyeye want the security of county/England. Further can you really develop in Zim (name one world class player since Taylor, cremer who hasnt gone through another countries system at some stage.

So the player would have to play u19 and then get picked for Zim and do uni online and not be able to get poached by another country. Eg madhevere type player.

Cremer said in that interview that whilst he was developing as a league back in the day he was getting payment after school and playing In a strong FC system in Zim.

[Zimco]

Yeah but blokes don't want to be selling scratch cards at 30 after they retired from FC/didn't make it for Zim. If FC in Zim paid I guarantee more blokes would stay and Zim would be better.

What Zim should do is get Zim blokes who play county and have a UK passport but aren't good enough to play for England a contract (money) and allow them to pay county in the season and select them when there is no county. I assume that would be allowed? Only reason Taylor and Jarvis couldn't do that was as they were kollpak I assume. Steal these players back.

But like I have said a hundred times, you don’t need to choose either/or.
Why is this just a zimbo thing?
In other countries and sports (US college sport aside) you don’t see players drop out of squads to go do uni.
When’s the last time you heard a Pakistani or Bangladeshi do that?

I’ve lost count of over the years how many feel good low key media stories there has been of various NRL players (average salary 400k a year before rep payments) do some sort of trade or uni study during the week.
Athletes have a fair amount of downtime. This is especially true for Zim cricket.
An average degree is 3 or 4 years.
Study load per week is meant to be around 10 hours, but let’s face it most people wouldn’t do more than 5.
A part time degree will halve the study load and double the length of time taken.

So are you trying to tell me these ambitious young cricketers who don’t want to sell crack after their career is done can’t train hard, play hard, and set aside 2/3 hours a week for study?
Why can other sports and countries do it but not our guys?

I remember there was one bulldogs NRL player called Corey Payne who retired at 30 after learning three languages and getting a doctorate of some shit and was a CEO by 34.
Alot of people looked at that with interest because Rugby league players are known for their dopiness! and a professional NRL team has a lot more workload, physical needs and eyes on them than a Zim cricketer.
All this is even more applicable in the Covid world.


The county idea you suggested is Not the worst idea in theory, but it’s not just county these guys play. There’s guys in Australia,SA and Nz too.

I’d push myself to have ZC and other tier two countries exempt from international caps in the first class systems such as England.
Reserve the international spots for world class cricketers and if you are from a test nation ranked below 11, and good enough for county, be treated like a local. Of course, the catch for the county side would be disruptions of their squad when such players are on national duty, but there wouldn’t be a hell of a lot of players that would be doing it, but for those that do, everyone wins.

Cause there aren't any good unis in Zim. Those NRl players/Americans had good unis in their country. I hear the online argument (not sure why the really good players don't take this) but I think the hedge the bet people want to have the experience of uni down south/uk and the really good players in the past like Byrom, Welsh muyeye want the security of county/England. Further can you really develop in Zim (name one world class player since Taylor, cremer who hasnt gone through another countries system at some stage. Probably only chatara of late.

So the player would have to play u19 and then get picked for Zim and do uni online and not be able to get poached by another country. Eg madhevere type player.

Cremer said in that interview that whilst he was developing as a league back in the day he was getting payment after school and playing In a strong FC system in Zim.

Also only certain things are online.

[eugene]

Honestly you could study fulltime in South Africa and still play cricket for Zimbabwe. Our season is only six weeks long anyway. It always amazes me that with such a short season how many of ours guys have randomly scheduled weddings or vacations during the same six weeks. I think it shows that playing for Zimbabwe is mostly just a well-paid hobby and not a career for most of them.

[TapsC2]

Honestly you could study fulltime in South Africa and still play cricket for Zimbabwe. Our season is only six weeks long anyway. It always amazes me that with such a short season how many of ours guys have randomly scheduled weddings or vacations during the same six weeks. I think it shows that playing for Zimbabwe is mostly just a well-paid hobby and not a career for most of them.

This sums it up perfectly. The difference in terms of character and mentality between the 80s and 90s players and now is that there was no real money in it back then. There was national pride. Cricket is the best paying sport in Zimbabwe but has the most flip floppers. Other sports has people playing purely just for the love and pride.

Yes the board has issues but some of the things I see defended here amazes me. One day you have a kid wanting special treatment because he is playing uni cricket in South Africa so he walks out. Another day we have a top player who was given preferential treatment allegedly walking out. People also forget Cremer walked out on ZC years back to play golf

It doesn’t surprise me when you see such stories regularly then we lose 90% of pressure situations in matches.

[sloandog]

Very well put

[TapsC2]

You don’t even have to finish your degree in 4 years if you are going to be playing cricket for 15. Maybe ZC should bridge the gap and offer to pay for part time uni.

I think we can experiment and monitor Wesleys’s progress as a player over somebody who chose the uni option. Then we can see in 5 years time who will be where in terms of cricket development

[TapsC2]

Sometimes I even think Hami would have been a far better player had he not taken that time off