State of SA

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zimbos_05
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Re: State of SA

Post by zimbos_05 »

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:40 am
racism against whites is seen as ok and that needs to change.
Quotas just rewards laziness and breeds entitlement.

Did anyone see the article from Philander the other month about how uncomfortable and ashamed he was that he took Abbots spot in the '15 World cup semi? And how it factored into his retirement?

What a burden that he didnt ask for.
This so much. I even read about it in ABs biography and he mentioned how Vernon did not want that. Vernon knew that Abbott should have been in the side and was happy with that decision, but the quotas coming from the top pushed him and he had no choice.

Zim and SA are so hell bent on having these racial quotas that they cannot see the damage it makes. They don't really care as long as they get their share of the pie. Zim went from being a genuine world beater in to a shit show that can barely beat the associates and SA will head there soon if they continue down this path.

The difference is that the ICC needs SA to stay competitive.

Googly
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Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:48 pm

Re: State of SA

Post by Googly »

The war cry is that it must represent the demographic. That means that there should only be one white per team in SA across the board and none in Zimbabwe, unless you could field 0.00125% of a white. The slow poison temporarily slows down when they start losing, but its inexorable. The fact that 90% of SA is black and 95% of them don't play cricket because they have no interest is irrelevant. The argument is that if they had facilities and opportunity they would be interested. The harsh reality is that there isn't the money and there isn't the interest.
If the Proteas had one white player they would push for a clean sweep. It will never end. Anyone who doesn't believe that doesn't understand the problem.
Any whites who think that if they make concessions that at some point an acceptable balance will be reached and everyone will live happily ever after is deluded. Complete domination is the goal. Money is a big incentive but the real issue is the fight against the whites. If every single white South African across the board stopped playing and administering cricket tomorrow most of the black guys would too. The recognition, the money, the public interest and the fun is in the fight. Cricket fields would become dusty soccer grounds within the year and cricket would limp along at a much lower level. Club cricket would die because someone has to pay to make it happen. Unless CSA supported club cricket it would cease to exist. This is not some theory, its Zimbabwe's story.

What's left is some very rich poisonous people at the top of the pile and large-scale disgruntlment below. It doesn't just apply to cricket either.
Black leaders are not fighting for equality, their goal is absolute authority and their foot soldiers are too stupid to realise it. Its an easy sell in SA and Zim because there's a common enemy that is a convenient smoke screen. Once the deed is done they toss their sergeants a bone and the bottom rung guys take a few years to realise they've been duped- witness the rise of the EFF.

Transformation is easily achievable but the outcome is always catastrophic. Why, is the billion dollar vexing question. A piece of the jigsaw is a sense that people are owed and they're entitled to it. The only way they know to play catch up is to take, if you didn't build it for sure you don't have the blue print to maintain it. The people that get to the top of the pile quickly realise the dream won't become a reality and they know to keep paying the necessary lip service and just to scoop as much cash as possible before it runs out. The leafy suburb becomes a reality. The second wave eventually realise they've been conned by their heroes and their plan is to cut down the leafy suburb in anger and the need for equality. Any equality will do, if they cant have then everyone must be at the same base level. They don't blame their heroes, they would get their heads cut off, they too go after the soft target as it will always have traction.

The people that push for transformation climb the ladder and the higher they go the more money they access. This applies to all colours of the rainbow. People like Smith, Boucher, Kirsten et al that make guest appearances in townships and black communities to spread the cricketing gospel are now not doing it to right the past wrongs, they're surviving, any feelings of altruism must have blown out the window by now. If it was convenient to be white Hendicks, De Kock et al would be proud of their white heritage. Witness the white All Blacks doing the Haka, people do what they need to in order to forge ahead. You don't see them in poor white trailer communities swinging a bat. I wonder if they feel a twinge of guilt? When you do more for another community than your own because you are a grovelling apologist its karma when it bites you. Black leaders understand the inherent greed of rhe white man and the ease in which they are divided.

In South Africa there's a stupefyingly rich black elite and a massive affluent black middle class. Has anyone ever stopped to question what they do for their communities and cricket in particular? Do they build private schools, do they build cricket clubs? Nope. Whilst there's free shit on offer and grovelling apologists trying to curry favour they don't need to and the honest truth is if they haven't by now they never will. White guilt is something to behold. Do the rich colored and Indian communities try and improve everyone's lives around them or do they look after their own?

ICC are an absolutely corrupt organisation. ZC had far less government intervention than CSA yet the silence is deafening. An audit of the kick backs being received by those thieves would make your eyes water.
Only the South Africans don't know how this will end. The blacks think they will make it work and the whites think that if they kiss arse and grovel enough there will be room for them and that at some point the black folk will ease up and there will be peaceful co-existence. Neither is true. There is too much hatred and animosity in that country. Within a couple of years there will be 20 white pro cricketers in SA across all franchises. With no pathways those kids with no options will take their feet off the pedal. Cricket will survive because they only need to produce one decent new kid a year to keep their national side vaguely competitive and soon they'll realise that's all they need to do to keep the ICC gravy coming down the pipe, but they're in rapid decline to a new and unknown level. They have the numbers and resources to never be as bad as us. The warning bell for them will be if we're ever booted into touch, but that's fortunately not looking likely.

ZIMDOGGY
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Re: State of SA

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

Googly wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:47 am
The war cry is that it must represent the demographic. That means that there should only be one white per team in SA across the board and none in Zimbabwe, unless you could field 0.00125% of a white. The slow poison temporarily slows down when they start losing, but its inexorable. The fact that 90% of SA is black and 95% of them don't play cricket because they have no interest is irrelevant. The argument is that if they had facilities and opportunity they would be interested. The harsh reality is that there isn't the money and there isn't the interest.
If the Proteas had one white player they would push for a clean sweep. It will never end. Anyone who doesn't believe that doesn't understand the problem.
Any whites who think that if they make concessions that at some point an acceptable balance will be reached and everyone will live happily ever after is deluded. Complete domination is the goal. Money is a big incentive but the real issue is the fight against the whites. If every single white South African across the board stopped playing and administering cricket tomorrow most of the black guys would too. The recognition, the money, the public interest and the fun is in the fight. Cricket fields would become dusty soccer grounds within the year and cricket would limp along at a much lower level. Club cricket would die because someone has to pay to make it happen. Unless CSA supported club cricket it would cease to exist. This is not some theory, its Zimbabwe's story.

What's left is some very rich poisonous people at the top of the pile and large-scale disgruntlment below. It doesn't just apply to cricket either.
Black leaders are not fighting for equality, their goal is absolute authority and their foot soldiers are too stupid to realise it. Its an easy sell in SA and Zim because there's a common enemy that is a convenient smoke screen. Once the deed is done they toss their sergeants a bone and the bottom rung guys take a few years to realise they've been duped- witness the rise of the EFF.

Transformation is easily achievable but the outcome is always catastrophic. Why, is the billion dollar vexing question. A piece of the jigsaw is a sense that people are owed and they're entitled to it. The only way they know to play catch up is to take, if you didn't build it for sure you don't have the blue print to maintain it. The people that get to the top of the pile quickly realise the dream won't become a reality and they know to keep paying the necessary lip service and just to scoop as much cash as possible before it runs out. The leafy suburb becomes a reality. The second wave eventually realise they've been conned by their heroes and their plan is to cut down the leafy suburb in anger and the need for equality. Any equality will do, if they cant have then everyone must be at the same base level. They don't blame their heroes, they would get their heads cut off, they too go after the soft target as it will always have traction.

The people that push for transformation climb the ladder and the higher they go the more money they access. This applies to all colours of the rainbow. People like Smith, Boucher, Kirsten et al that make guest appearances in townships and black communities to spread the cricketing gospel are now not doing it to right the past wrongs, they're surviving, any feelings of altruism must have blown out the window by now. If it was convenient to be white Hendicks, De Kock et al would be proud of their white heritage. Witness the white All Blacks doing the Haka, people do what they need to in order to forge ahead. You don't see them in poor white trailer communities swinging a bat. I wonder if they feel a twinge of guilt? When you do more for another community than your own because you are a grovelling apologist its karma when it bites you. Black leaders understand the inherent greed of rhe white man and the ease in which they are divided.

In South Africa there's a stupefyingly rich black elite and a massive affluent black middle class. Has anyone ever stopped to question what they do for their communities and cricket in particular? Do they build private schools, do they build cricket clubs? Nope. Whilst there's free shit on offer and grovelling apologists trying to curry favour they don't need to and the honest truth is if they haven't by now they never will. White guilt is something to behold. Do the rich colored and Indian communities try and improve everyone's lives around them or do they look after their own?

ICC are an absolutely corrupt organisation. ZC had far less government intervention than CSA yet the silence is deafening. An audit of the kick backs being received by those thieves would make your eyes water.
Only the South Africans don't know how this will end. The blacks think they will make it work and the whites think that if they kiss arse and grovel enough there will be room for them and that at some point the black folk will ease up and there will be peaceful co-existence. Neither is true. There is too much hatred and animosity in that country. Within a couple of years there will be 20 white pro cricketers in SA across all franchises. With no pathways those kids with no options will take their feet off the pedal. Cricket will survive because they only need to produce one decent new kid a year to keep their national side vaguely competitive and soon they'll realise that's all they need to do to keep the ICC gravy coming down the pipe, but they're in rapid decline to a new and unknown level. They have the numbers and resources to never be as bad as us. The warning bell for them will be if we're ever booted into touch, but that's fortunately not looking likely.
I agree,
constant arse kissing doesnt serve anyone any favours. Good post because this is how i think about it too, but sometimes struggle to verbalise it.
Cricinfo profile of the 'James Bond' of cricket:

FULL NAME: Angus James Mackay
BORN: 13 June 1967, Harare
KNOWN AS: Gus Mackay

'The' Gus Mackay.

Hero.
Sportsman.
Artist.
Player.

**
Q. VUSI SIBANDA, WHERE DO YOU HOP?

A. UNDA DA ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE*

Googly
Posts: 6576
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:48 pm

Re: State of SA

Post by Googly »

There are two keys to creating successful black cricket organisations.
The first one is competent administration. Once a guy is in office he expends most of his energy and the organisation's resources into ensuring he's there to stay. Whites do it, but the black guys are grand masters. Transparency goes out the window and election season is a non event, it's taken care of way beforehand. With millions flowing in annually the temptation is too great. Get rid of the opposition and make sure people can't check up on you, and if they can, make sure you own them. People let them do it, that's the problem. They come in as saviours and the new guardians but as sure as the sun rises tomorrow they become opportunists.

The second key is the enigma of producing world class black batsmen. West Indies produce more than their fair share so why not SA and Zim? With quality black batters CSA and ZC wouldn't have to keep dangling packages for the Fafs, the AB's, the BT's of this world and transformation would be a piece of old tackie.
I have the answer and will gladly share it because its so hard to do. With very few exceptions (there are always exceptions), if you ask a quality batter to tell you their story its invariably the same-
They come from a cricketing background. They ideally should be around like minded kids/brothers playing competitive playground stuff.
Someone has thrown them endless balls from a very young age 3,4,5,6 days a week for years and years. The coach has to be as driven as the kid.
They have a really good junior coach.
They have had a serious support network of a relative/s that provides, fetches and carries, provides emotional support.
The kid has a driving goal to be a pro and to succeed and to be like someone he profoundly admires. He must want to be somebody and to daydream AND be prepared to put in the hard yards. Anyone can fantasize- its not enough.
They MUST play competitive cricket. As a junior this means playing up 1,2 or 3 years.
They need to play 20-30 games a year. 10 is not enough.
They need to be mentally tough, talent only gets you so far.
If they're not banging hundreds at school they're in long shot territory of being really good.
Once they're about to crack men's level someone has to believe in them and open that final door.
Throw in a dash of luck to fire when it counts because when you're at elite level you're competing for the big prize and you're now with the last 4 freaks who are as determined and capable as you. You're batting for your life and the 10-15 years of sacrifice you and your network have put in and you need fucking balls of steel, cricket might be the most unforgiving sport of all and you don't get many chances...except in Zimbabwe and South Africa :lol:

This is the patented formula and you need the talent to begin with, otherwise practice your bowling and bat in the middle. :lol:

Googly
Posts: 6576
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:48 pm

Re: State of SA

Post by Googly »

If you're one of the true advocates of transformation then you must believe in it being demographically representative. You can't be half pregnant.
That means one player per team in SA and none in Zim and no indians. Thats the end of the story right there.
If you're prepared to tolerate more than that you're selling something.

sam_ahm
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 4:23 pm

Re: State of SA

Post by sam_ahm »

I agree, South African cricket will collapse quickly by the looks of it. The fact that earlier Hashim, Tahir, Duminy who were in the team on merit and also contributed to the Quota numbers is also gone now. Apart from Rabada I don't see any other colored player 100% deserves his place in the side.

ZIMDOGGY
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Re: State of SA

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

sam_ahm wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:45 am
I agree, South African cricket will collapse quickly by the looks of it. The fact that earlier Hashim, Tahir, Duminy who were in the team on merit and also contributed to the Quota numbers is also gone now. Apart from Rabada I don't see any other colored player 100% deserves his place in the side.
And Rabada will burn out by thirty once he’s flogged to death and unable to take a rest because they need his numbers towards the quota.
Or they do rest him and the side gets even weaker.
Cricinfo profile of the 'James Bond' of cricket:

FULL NAME: Angus James Mackay
BORN: 13 June 1967, Harare
KNOWN AS: Gus Mackay

'The' Gus Mackay.

Hero.
Sportsman.
Artist.
Player.

**
Q. VUSI SIBANDA, WHERE DO YOU HOP?

A. UNDA DA ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE*

Zimco
Posts: 229
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:11 pm
Supports: Matabeleland Tuskers

Re: State of SA

Post by Zimco »

sam_ahm wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:45 am
I agree, South African cricket will collapse quickly by the looks of it. The fact that earlier Hashim, Tahir, Duminy who were in the team on merit and also contributed to the Quota numbers is also gone now. Apart from Rabada I don't see any other colored player 100% deserves his place in the side.
Ngidi isn't bad

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CrimsonAvenger
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Re: State of SA

Post by CrimsonAvenger »

I've always wondered why they don't pick Keshav Maharaj for other formats too, the guy has been impressive in tests and can bat. Can hit them long too. His demeanor on the field reminds me of Price at times (but with all the niceties that a typical Indian brings in addition :)). Fits in the colored column as well. Or are they enamored by the rarity of Shamsi?

TapsC2
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:40 pm

Re: State of SA

Post by TapsC2 »

Googly wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:21 am
There are two keys to creating successful black cricket organisations.
The first one is competent administration. Once a guy is in office he expends most of his energy and the organisation's resources into ensuring he's there to stay. Whites do it, but the black guys are grand masters. Transparency goes out the window and election season is a non event, it's taken care of way beforehand. With millions flowing in annually the temptation is too great. Get rid of the opposition and make sure people can't check up on you, and if they can, make sure you own them. People let them do it, that's the problem. They come in as saviours and the new guardians but as sure as the sun rises tomorrow they become opportunists.

The second key is the enigma of producing world class black batsmen. West Indies produce more than their fair share so why not SA and Zim? With quality black batters CSA and ZC wouldn't have to keep dangling packages for the Fafs, the AB's, the BT's of this world and transformation would be a piece of old tackie.
I have the answer and will gladly share it because its so hard to do. With very few exceptions (there are always exceptions), if you ask a quality batter to tell you their story its invariably the same-
They come from a cricketing background. They ideally should be around like minded kids/brothers playing competitive playground stuff.
Someone has thrown them endless balls from a very young age 3,4,5,6 days a week for years and years. The coach has to be as driven as the kid.
They have a really good junior coach.
They have had a serious support network of a relative/s that provides, fetches and carries, provides emotional support.
The kid has a driving goal to be a pro and to succeed and to be like someone he profoundly admires. He must want to be somebody and to daydream AND be prepared to put in the hard yards. Anyone can fantasize- its not enough.
They MUST play competitive cricket. As a junior this means playing up 1,2 or 3 years.
They need to play 20-30 games a year. 10 is not enough.
They need to be mentally tough, talent only gets you so far.
If they're not banging hundreds at school they're in long shot territory of being really good.
Once they're about to crack men's level someone has to believe in them and open that final door.
Throw in a dash of luck to fire when it counts because when you're at elite level you're competing for the big prize and you're now with the last 4 freaks who are as determined and capable as you. You're batting for your life and the 10-15 years of sacrifice you and your network have put in and you need fucking balls of steel, cricket might be the most unforgiving sport of all and you don't get many chances...except in Zimbabwe and South Africa :lol:

This is the patented formula and you need the talent to begin with, otherwise practice your bowling and bat in the middle. :lol:
This is why Muyeye is the ultimate prize. The poster boy. I’m surprised they haven’t done everything in their power to bring him in. I completely get what you are saying but I think Myers, Muyeye and Madhevere might change that black batsman narrative sooner than you think. Those kids have what it takes. I don’t know how but they certainly do.

The problem is that ZC is showing that you can survive and not get kicked out if you tick certain boxes. SA has enough competitive schools cricket to produce a couple of players a year and the reality is that’s all you need.

One big reason for Zimbabwe’s decline besides the obvious reasons is that we went on a 6 year period where we didn’t produce any decent cricketers. Think about the generation just below Jarvis all the way up to the Burl/Musakanda generation. 5 years of nothing. Only Chatara is a regular. The PJs and Kasuzas failed to cement their places in the team. It affected us big time. Only Mire getting a century

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