State of SA

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Zimco
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Re: State of SA

Post by Zimco »

Did the parents pay for shepherd makanuras wages? Did they run and pay all the costs of the provincial tournaments in Triangle, Zimbabwe and at Prince Edward? Sure the parents contributed to the South Africa tour costs to an extent. All that would have cost way more in other countries.

The parents could access FC players like Waller and some other black player whose name I forget ( I don't like to talk in colour) for a pittance of what it cost in other countries to train their kids. These coaches used ZC balls to train these kids.

Shepherd makanura threw balls to these players and there were a lot good people at ZC who were working for the betterment of cricket. I don't know the current situation, so I trust you that it is not as it was.

Admittedly I was a few years before Sam. I doubt Angus Curtis could just pick up a cricket bat now and play high level cricket.
Last edited by Zimco on Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Zimco
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Re: State of SA

Post by Zimco »

Googly wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:31 pm
The same connections that helped Byrom and Co also helped Huchu and Muyeye get placed overseas to help rock solid talented boys.
That's great to hear.

Do you think Sam would have played for Zim if Kevin hadn't died like this article suggests? I didn't know Kevin was the head of the Zim Cricket Academy at the time of his death.https://southerntimesafrica.com/site/ne ... cket-today

Googly
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Re: State of SA

Post by Googly »

Zimco wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:41 pm
Did the parents pay for shepherd makanuras wages? Did they run and pay all the costs of the provincial tournaments in Triangle, Zimbabwe and at Prince Edward? Sure the parents contributed to the South Africa tour costs to an extent. All that would have cost way more in other countries.

The parents could access FC players like Waller and some other black player whose name I forget ( I don't like to talk in colour) for a pittance of what it cost in other countries to train their kids. These coaches used ZC balls to train these kids.

Shepherd makanura threw balls to these players and there were a lot good people at ZC who were working for the betterment of cricket. I don't know the current situation, so I trust you that it is not as it was.

Admittedly I was a few years before Sam. I doubt Angus Curtis could just pick up a cricket bat now and play high level cricket.
I'm just saying that there were two years where parents funded one particular group of boys, no more no less. Theres no suggestion that they ran ZC :lol:
They were called Zim Pups in fact. You can probably Google it.

On most other occasions parents were asked to assist and they did.
I'm not knocking Shepherd at all, good guy, knows his stuff.
Shortly after this period ZC funding of age group tours resumed.

I just read that article, his best year was in Form 1, he plundered hundreds, but at age group level on tour he generally didn't do as well as Curtis or Welch, nor did he take as many wickets as Murwendo or Matigimu.
He was a destroyer of loose bowling, amazing to watch, but if it was tight, Curtis and Welch usually fared better, they were very disciplined.
Curran led the way though at junior school, he had complete self belief and just went at it and the good thing to watch was boys like Curtis, Welch, Byrom, Murray etc raise their games immediately. Thats what happens when there's a uniquely talented set of boys around. Zim won't see an age group like that again. They were ridiculous.

Googly
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Re: State of SA

Post by Googly »

I ponder that often- whether Sam and Ben would have stayed if KC was still with us. And if Tom would have joined them.
KC had very strong connections in county cricket. Mum lived in UK as they were separated. I would think that he'd have sent his boys over.
He'd already sent Tom to SA and when Surrey took a liking to him after seeing him in Cape Town he was on his way.
The question remains- would KC have made enough of a difference to Zim cricket to make it more enticing for his sons to stay? We will never know the answer to that.
He had a great relationship with his boys, they fought like cat and dog, but they were tight.
Everyone just thinks- send your boys 8000km away to play sport, but thats a monumental decision for a parent, especially if there's a tight bond.
I think everyone knew Sam had an amazing skill set and KC would like to have seen how far he could go. I'm sure his lads have exceeded his wildest expectations, he'd have been impossible to deal with after a few beers :lol:

As amazing as Sam is, I cant help feeling he has unfulfilled batting potential. Hes come up a bit short in the batting dept for how talented he is. He may yet really blossom, but I always felt he was Buttleresque and yet he hasn't reached those heights...yet. Years of batting down the order at Surrey I believe has stifled his extraordinary ability with the willow.

TapsC2
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Re: State of SA

Post by TapsC2 »

The main reason why racial transformation is not working in Southern Africa is that Cricket is not that popular amongst the targeted populations. Yes it’s a sport people watch with some interest but actually playing it is different. That is where the issue is.

In private schools for example cricket and basketball are played at the same time. You can guess which sport is picked by the average black kid. The key is converting some of these kids from other sports to play cricket. This is why you are not getting bowlers who can hit the 140kph mark for example. They are either involved in athletics or basketball.

When you are 15 years old you don’t even realize that cricket might be the easiest way to a financially rewarding sporting career if you are a talented sports player. The likes of Musakanda were good in other sports too but probably only started focusing on cricket much later.

Quotas just won’t work in that situation. For example in SA 90% of the population might be black but only 5% of them might have a genuine interest in playing cricket. That then means only 4.5% of that population is interested yet half of the remaining 10% might be interested. In the end you will find you will have an equal number of people from both sides interested and not this majority being denied opportunities to play like they suggest. The first step is building genuine national interest.

Googly
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Re: State of SA

Post by Googly »

I disagree entirely.
There has always been huge national interest in SA, but amongst the whites predominantly. There have always been more than enough phenomenal players going around to fill 10 franchises if you wanted. They've nearly always produced the fastest bowlers going around and the best batsmen.
Now along comes a group of people that are hell bent on converting a largely disinterested population of 45 million people :lol: To what end? South Africa couldn't get much better, they were top of the pile. What exactly are people missing out on? Why do you need to persuade disinterested people that they're missing out on a good thing. If I had someone pitch up at my doorstep bouncing a football saying "kick it, kick it, you'll like it, you'll see!" He'd get the same short shift i reserve for Jehova's Witnesses.
The only agenda I see is to rile up an easily riled population by convincing them theyre missing out and being disenfranchised by evil people.
If this drive hadn't taken place you'd have 40 million people wondering what these morons were doing playing this very strange game with mind boggling rules all dressed in white with a ball that can kill you. There's only one reason to do that and that's to get control and get your mitts on the moolah. I question the motive all day.
Why do you want to wean millions of people off basketball, athletics and football and convince them that they're missing out? What about the basketball, soccer and athletics fraternity, they're possibly being prejudiced of world class players? Why not push soccer with everything you've got, that's where the real money is. Professional cricket in South Africa has room for 200 people absolute max. Tune into a test match or a 4 day game in South Africa and see how much black folk have taken to cricket :lol:
There will never be the facilities or the opportunities for that number of people. Its a sport that costs a lot of money, takes up space and 99% of schools will never ever have the facilities or the coaches to play.

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eugene
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Re: State of SA

Post by eugene »

I really don't see why the ICC, IOC, IRB, etc allow teams from South Africa to be selected on racial grounds.
Neil Johnson, Alistair Campbell, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), Grant Flower, Dave Houghton, Guy Whittall, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Ray Price, Eddo Brandes

Googly
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Re: State of SA

Post by Googly »

So a part motive in SA is to ensure 180 of the 200 professionals are not white to disenfranchise and disillusion a chunk of white folk (more than half the whites don't like cricket either :lol: , its an acquired taste). People can argue all day that its to level the playing field, but the facts say different. If you only let 4 whites play for now and further reduce it later they'll stop practicing and playing a sport they're officially not allowed to. Nobody is going to voluntarily practice a game they're not allowed to play :lol:
CSA are saying loud and clear- you're not allowed to play!!

ICC are looking to expand the gospel of cricket. The world should acknowledge the insurmountable racial problems that divide our nations.
Here's a way of ending all the problems- Why can't they allow a second South African side to be a full member? Call it the Blesboks :lol: Give them 1/20th the funding they give CSA. They'd probably be the strongest team in the world and you'd have an extra half a million people practicing and enjoying like their lives depended on it.
They could do the same for Zim- call them the Outcasts :lol:
They would be a force as well.
If there's no agenda, what would be the problem?

sloandog
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Re: State of SA

Post by sloandog »

South Africa could be the best side in the world, period. They have such talent yet they can’t get them in the side

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jaybro
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Re: State of SA

Post by jaybro »

Maybe SOuth Africa should field two sides. a white and a black side

Obviously this would never happen
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