Rocks vs Tuskers & Eagles vs Rhinos

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CrimsonAvenger
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Re: Rocks vs Tuskers & Eagles vs Rhinos

Post by CrimsonAvenger »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:59 am
CrimsonAvenger wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:32 am

Thanks as always for the update John, and it is disheartening to know Ervine went for a reverse sweep and perished. He is not as compulsive a reverse sweeper from what we have seen in the international arena at least - not as compulsive as Taylor, Williams, Taibu and Hammy - but well...
Taylor, Williams are obsessed with sweeping in general. They just don't know when to put it that shot on the shelf. Can't comment on Taibu as I haven't seen him much. But I don't remember Hammy playing too many sweeps (maybe I'm wrong). Ervine is better than Taylor and Williams in that he doesn't try and sweep every other ball.
Hamilton tried that a lot more towards the end of his career - otherwise, he was not as bad as the other three. Taibu was frustratingly regular with bad reverse sweeps. He might have ended up with an average of 5 more runs if not for reverse sweeps I feel. Same with BT. Williams is possibly the best among them when he plays them.

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Re: Rocks vs Tuskers & Eagles vs Rhinos

Post by jward »

jaybro wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:31 am
Kriterion_BD wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:59 am

Taylor, Williams are obsessed with sweeping in general. They just don't know when to put it that shot on the shelf. Can't comment on Taibu as I haven't seen him much. But I don't remember Hammy playing too many sweeps (maybe I'm wrong). Ervine is better than Taylor and Williams in that he doesn't try and sweep every other ball.
It's so frustrating that all Zimbabwe batsman seem to favour shots across the line, I'm not expert on batting but I would have thought the first thing you would learn as a youngster is to play with a straight bat and use the full face. The odds of getting out would sky rocket the moment you close the bat face, yet our guys seem to always favour the sweep and swipe across the line.

I can't really think of a Zimbabwean batsman that loved playing straight? Guys like Hamilton, Vusi and Williams look brilliant when they did play the straight drive, but all three would quickly revert back to sweeps and swipes
Heath Streak was actually the best straight hitter I can remember. If he hadn't been our best bowler, he would have been an outstanding batsman.

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Re: Rocks vs Tuskers & Eagles vs Rhinos

Post by jaybro »

jward wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:51 pm

Heath Streak was actually the best straight hitter I can remember. If he hadn't been our best bowler, he would have been an outstanding batsman.
Yes he was a really solid batsman who was getting better with age, I actually envisaged Streak continuing as a middle order batsman once he was too old to bowl, unfortunately we know what happened.
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Kriterion_BD
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Re: Rocks vs Tuskers & Eagles vs Rhinos

Post by Kriterion_BD »

There is nothing wrong with cross batted shots...if the bowling merits it. If the ball is short, but in your arc, sure go for the hook/pull. If its short and wide, cut it. These are still proper cricketing shots. So too is the sweep, paddle and yes even the slog version.

The problem is when you compulsively sweep. That to me indicates uneasiness at whats being dished up.
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Re: Rocks vs Tuskers & Eagles vs Rhinos

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

The old Zimbabwe teams were chronic sweepers as well. Not reverse sweepers. They loved to sweep though.
Carlisle I recall had an interesting sweep technique where he sort of dangled the bat out and cocked his hand for a very fine paddle through leg slip. Opposite to Taibu who would try and sweep it so hard the red came off.
They have always been sweepers.

I do think the sweep is a little of a one size all solution in lieu of being able to navigate the nuances of the spin on its own merit. Kind of like a fishing net if you can’t use a hook and line at sea. It works most of the time, but it’s a sign you’re not a great player of spin when you use it a lot.
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Re: Rocks vs Tuskers & Eagles vs Rhinos

Post by Kallum »

It just feels as if players like Williams and Taylor feel as if they have to carry on the great sweeping tradition in Zimbabwean cricket, you think about it and several of the greatest sweepers of all time where Zimbabweans including the great pioneer Dave Houghton and ofc Andy Flower.

I agree with the nuances of playing spin as a dreadful player of leg spin bowling myself, I feel the need to sweep regularly because I'm hardly ever picking the delivery facing me, however could it purely just be a legacy of a strong hockey base in which many of them would have grown up at school playing and thus then trusting their instincts with cross bat shots in lieu of not reading the bowling. Would certainly explain how rather average leg spin bowling like that by Usman Qadir dominated against Zimbabwean finest players of spin

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Re: Rocks vs Tuskers & Eagles vs Rhinos

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

Kallum wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:12 pm
It just feels as if players like Williams and Taylor feel as if they have to carry on the great sweeping tradition in Zimbabwean cricket, you think about it and several of the greatest sweepers of all time where Zimbabweans including the great pioneer Dave Houghton and ofc Andy Flower.

I agree with the nuances of playing spin as a dreadful player of leg spin bowling myself, I feel the need to sweep regularly because I'm hardly ever picking the delivery facing me, however could it purely just be a legacy of a strong hockey base in which many of them would have grown up at school playing and thus then trusting their instincts with cross bat shots in lieu of not reading the bowling. Would certainly explain how rather average leg spin bowling like that by Usman Qadir dominated against Zimbabwean finest players of spin
the last part is more to do with them not understanding how to handle it.
all the spinners we have and this forum creams their pants for, arent actually spinners, they are slow bowlers.

Chisoro, williams, raza, whoever else arent turners. They just get their wickets for putting it in the right spots and hope the batsmen make a mistake or lose concentration.

That style of bowling is fairly low difficulty and wouldnt be much different between test cricket and park cricket, but will be similarly effective each.
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Re: Rocks vs Tuskers & Eagles vs Rhinos

Post by jaybro »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:16 am
There is nothing wrong with cross batted shots...if the bowling merits it. If the ball is short, but in your arc, sure go for the hook/pull. If its short and wide, cut it. These are still proper cricketing shots. So too is the sweep, paddle and yes even the slog version.

The problem is when you compulsively sweep. That to me indicates uneasiness at whats being dished up.
How many cross batted swipes does Kohli play? Zero
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Re: Rocks vs Tuskers & Eagles vs Rhinos

Post by Kriterion_BD »

jaybro wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:47 am
Kriterion_BD wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:16 am
There is nothing wrong with cross batted shots...if the bowling merits it. If the ball is short, but in your arc, sure go for the hook/pull. If its short and wide, cut it. These are still proper cricketing shots. So too is the sweep, paddle and yes even the slog version.

The problem is when you compulsively sweep. That to me indicates uneasiness at whats being dished up.
How many cross batted swipes does Kohli play? Zero
Swipes arent the only cross batted shots tho. Hooks, pulls, cuts are all cross batted. Its all about picking the right shot for the right ball and not premeditating.
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Re: Rocks vs Tuskers & Eagles vs Rhinos

Post by jaybro »

[quote=Kriterion_BD post_id=155220 time=1608782061

Swipes arent the only cross batted shots tho. Hooks, pulls, cuts are all cross batted. Its all about picking the right shot for the right ball and not premeditating.
[/quote]

Hooks cuts and pulls are fine, I’m talking about swipes across the line when you should be playing in the V

It’s so frustrating that our guys often go for low percentage shots, as Kohli proves time after time, you consistently score big runs in ODI cricket by simply playing full balls with a straight bat in the V
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