How come Namibia doesn't have a quota but Zim/SA have?

[Zimco]

Not that big anymore but more than that. Also Falcon school is near Bulawayo which has a large white population of students.

[Zimco]

Whites

B Taylor
C Ervine
S Williams
K Jarvis

P Moor
R Burl
R Murray

B Evans

Basically these are the whites imo near the national team at the moment and the bottom 4 there are not really that good to assume they may ever be dropped on race. Personally to show that talent has nothing to do with race, I think Richard Ngarava is and will be a better bowler than Kyle. Barring injury Chatara is a better bowler than Jarvis too. My point is that there is a generally accepted narrative that whites are better than blacks at the game which I think has been more of a coincidence and an exposure thing and should not be a cause for selection or for bias. At our supposed peak in 2002, the Windies would still beat us. The best batter in the world right now is non white. Zim with some serious people in admin and in coaching does not need to be either black or white. With the right people in charge, contrary to popular opinion, an all black zim team can do very well just like an all white would all things equal. Burl and Moor like Taps mentioned will actually be selected because they are white and easy to identify, but these guys arent any much better than Roy Kaia.

What we suffer from is also a shortage of genuine international standard players black or white. And to further highlight how insensitive the race issue is now, We have had white captains mostly in the last few years all on merit.

In conclusion, not sure who exactly needs to hear this, Zim not performing well is not because it has more black players in the team, but because of poor admin and coaching, maybe also due to the alleged corruption in grassroot talent nurturing.

I think a point fuelling this is that a lot of very average white cricketers at club and school level just don't go professional compared to blacks. Only those whites with a genuine chance of national team selection keep playing Logan Cup etc, which is why there are so few white players in the competition now and why basically all of the white players playing first class cricket in Zimbabwe are also in the national team conversation. Most young white players who aren't good enough just end up studying or working overseas or going into their family business instead. Why persist trying to play Logan Cup for a few dollars per match if you are only ever going to be good enough to average 20 or something, like a lot of the current black first class players do? Most white people in Zim still have a lot better alternative opportunities and careers etc through wealth, family or foreign citizenship

So you end up largely only with 'good' white players in the system, and no particularly really rubbish ones. This fuels the narrative that white players are better. Which of course isn't actually true at all.

Historically the white players in Zim have been better batsmen ,and perhaps still to an extent, because they have had more training

[ZIMDOGGY]

Whites

B Taylor
C Ervine
S Williams
K Jarvis

P Moor
R Burl
R Murray

B Evans

Basically these are the whites imo near the national team at the moment and the bottom 4 there are not really that good to assume they may ever be dropped on race. Personally to show that talent has nothing to do with race, I think Richard Ngarava is and will be a better bowler than Kyle. Barring injury Chatara is a better bowler than Jarvis too. My point is that there is a generally accepted narrative that whites are better than blacks at the game which I think has been more of a coincidence and an exposure thing and should not be a cause for selection or for bias. At our supposed peak in 2002, the Windies would still beat us. The best batter in the world right now is non white. Zim with some serious people in admin and in coaching does not need to be either black or white. With the right people in charge, contrary to popular opinion, an all black zim team can do very well just like an all white would all things equal. Burl and Moor like Taps mentioned will actually be selected because they are white and easy to identify, but these guys arent any much better than Roy Kaia.

What we suffer from is also a shortage of genuine international standard players black or white. And to further highlight how insensitive the race issue is now, We have had white captains mostly in the last few years all on merit.

In conclusion, not sure who exactly needs to hear this, Zim not performing well is not because it has more black players in the team, but because of poor admin and coaching, maybe also due to the alleged corruption in grassroot talent nurturing.

Again, because they were chased out and fled before they got to that point.
murray isnt here, and the top 4 wouldnt be there if not for guaranteed national contracts on the heavier side.

Nick Welch for example WANTED to play tests for zim, was even playing for Eagles but was forced to look elsewhere after not making the national 19s side. What was he? 2nd best bat in that squad?

There is a culmination of alot of factors as to why they arent there anymore. Look back at every 19s squad over the last 20 years. Where are they?

I will say one thing that the whites are being dopey at.
"Ill give the game a break for 3 years whilst i study a degree in England'.

Nigga please!
Show me any professional sport where someone takes three years out of the sport and doesnt come back severely behind the pace?

Im not against them going to uni, but they seem against following every other nation and sport in the world and studying part time during the week whilst they play cricket.

[ZIMDOGGY]

Whites

B Taylor
C Ervine
S Williams
K Jarvis

P Moor
R Burl
R Murray

B Evans

Basically these are the whites imo near the national team at the moment and the bottom 4 there are not really that good to assume they may ever be dropped on race. Personally to show that talent has nothing to do with race, I think Richard Ngarava is and will be a better bowler than Kyle. Barring injury Chatara is a better bowler than Jarvis too. My point is that there is a generally accepted narrative that whites are better than blacks at the game which I think has been more of a coincidence and an exposure thing and should not be a cause for selection or for bias. At our supposed peak in 2002, the Windies would still beat us. The best batter in the world right now is non white. Zim with some serious people in admin and in coaching does not need to be either black or white. With the right people in charge, contrary to popular opinion, an all black zim team can do very well just like an all white would all things equal. Burl and Moor like Taps mentioned will actually be selected because they are white and easy to identify, but these guys arent any much better than Roy Kaia.

What we suffer from is also a shortage of genuine international standard players black or white. And to further highlight how insensitive the race issue is now, We have had white captains mostly in the last few years all on merit.

In conclusion, not sure who exactly needs to hear this, Zim not performing well is not because it has more black players in the team, but because of poor admin and coaching, maybe also due to the alleged corruption in grassroot talent nurturing.

I think a point fuelling this is that a lot of very average white cricketers at club and school level just don't go professional compared to blacks. Only those whites with a genuine chance of national team selection keep playing Logan Cup etc, which is why there are so few white players in the competition now and why basically all of the white players playing first class cricket in Zimbabwe are also in the national team conversation. Most young white players who aren't good enough just end up studying or working overseas or going into their family business instead. Why persist trying to play Logan Cup for a few dollars per match if you are only ever going to be good enough to average 20 or something, like a lot of the current black first class players do? Most white people in Zim still have a lot better alternative opportunities and careers etc through wealth, family or foreign citizenship

So you end up largely only with 'good' white players in the system, and no particularly really rubbish ones. This fuels the narrative that white players are better. Which of course isn't actually true at all.

Historically the white players in Zim have been better batsmen ,and perhaps still to an extent, because they have had more training

You can coach a batsman from nothing.
Cant do the same as much as a bowler, you need numbers.

The future, if functioning, is white batsmen and black bowlers.

numbers and genetics for the bowling department,
ingrained generations of cricketing culture for the batting.

[secretzimbo]

You can coach a batsman from nothing.
Cant do the same as much as a bowler, you need numbers.

The future, if functioning, is white batsmen and black bowlers.

numbers and genetics for the bowling department,
ingrained generations of cricketing culture for the batting.

Ridiculously simplistic and outdated. Muyeye, Musakanda, Madhevere, Myers, Marumani, Shumba etc say otherwise.

[ZIMDOGGY]

You can coach a batsman from nothing.
Cant do the same as much as a bowler, you need numbers.

The future, if functioning, is white batsmen and black bowlers.

numbers and genetics for the bowling department,
ingrained generations of cricketing culture for the batting.

Ridiculously simplistic and outdated. Muyeye, Musakanda, Madhevere, Myers, Marumani, Shumba etc say otherwise.

Mind game for you.
Imagine all are availableFor the next WC Pick 7 out of
Welch
De grandhomme
Taylor
Ervine
Williams
Muyeye
Welch
Byrom
Bcurran (just him for now)
Musakanda
Myers
Madhevere
Marumani
Shumba
Raza
Ballance
Chibhabha
Burl
Schandendorf
Cartwright
K-long
Rouse
Murray
Moor

[Zimco]

The players you have listed don't really disprove what Zimdoggy said in a way.

For example, Wes would have got superior training in South Africa and Myers comes from a cricket family as his older brother was good player so both of these players had good training. Myers also went to St George's, a good private school.

If a guy just went to Churchill or some other school and that is all the cricket he is doing he might be a good batsmen but it will hamper him being a great batsmen. One of the advantages the boys at these schools like Churchill and PE are that they board I think, so they could hit heaps of balls with their friends. ZC also had some good coaches back in the day that often taught at these schools and the number of cricket schools is small so the guys from these schools would play the private schools. The good players would stand out when there are only like seven schools playing each other regularly, plus some south African sides coming over.

A lot of the white guys are good batsmen because of their parents giving them a lot of coaching like Welsh whose dad apparently fed him thousands of balls and Byrom also fed lots of balls. They both would of had backyard nets. I've seen Myers has a backyard net too so that definetly helps.

[secretzimbo]

Mind game for you.
Imagine all are availableFor the next WC Pick 7 out of
Welch
De grandhomme
Taylor
Ervine
Williams
Muyeye
Welch
Byrom
Bcurran (just him for now)
Musakanda
Myers
Madhevere
Marumani
Shumba
Raza
Ballance
Chibhabha
Burl
Schandendorf
Cartwright
K-long
Rouse
Murray
Moor

It's a good game to play, but it's irrelevant if the majority aren't willing to play for Zimbabwe though, isn't it? I have little to no interest in discussing guys who have no interest in Zim. Also, you were talking about the 'future'. Plenty of the names above have either moved on from ZC, or with the big 4 are ageing. Probably none of the 7 you would pick are realistically 'the future' at all. Zimbabwe is Zimbabwe. The demographics are the demographics. ZC is ZC. We have to be realistic and realise what the actual future is in the real world. The future is overwhelmingly both black batters and black bowlers, probably with a couple of whites here and there. I don't think thats a bad thing long-term.

Anyway, I just find it confusing that in your original post you state;

a ) 'You can coach a batsman from nothing'

and

b ) race and 'ingrained generations of cricketing culture' are somehow relevant to a batsman being good.

They can't both be true can they

[Zimco]

You can coach a batsman from nothing.
Cant do the same as much as a bowler, you need numbers.

The future, if functioning, is white batsmen and black bowlers.

numbers and genetics for the bowling department,
ingrained generations of cricketing culture for the batting.

Ridiculously simplistic and outdated. Muyeye, Musakanda, Madhevere, Myers, Marumani, Shumba etc say otherwise.

Mind game for you.
Imagine all are availableFor the next WC Pick 7 out of
Welch
De grandhomme
Taylor
Ervine
Williams
Muyeye
Welch
Byrom
Bcurran (just him for now)
Musakanda
Myers
Madhevere
Marumani
Shumba
Raza
Ballance
Chibhabha
Burl
Schandendorf
Cartwright
K-long
Rouse
Murray
Moor

My team would be:

Welch
Byrom
Taylor (keeper)
Ervine
Cartwright
De grandhomme
Williams
Raza
Snater
Blessing
Chatara

Wow what a team! Cartwright was more developed in Aus as be left young so I'm not sure if he could count. Higgins is more of test bowler it seems from stats. Our test side would be very decent especially if you added Cremer. Obviously Sam Curran if i could put him in.

[Zimco]

Mind game for you.
Imagine all are availableFor the next WC Pick 7 out of
Welch
De grandhomme
Taylor
Ervine
Williams
Muyeye
Welch
Byrom
Bcurran (just him for now)
Musakanda
Myers
Madhevere
Marumani
Shumba
Raza
Ballance
Chibhabha
Burl
Schandendorf
Cartwright
K-long
Rouse
Murray
Moor

It's a good game to play, but it's irrelevant if the majority aren't willing to play for Zimbabwe though, isn't it? I have little to no interest in discussing guys who have no interest in Zim. Also, you were talking about the 'future'. Plenty of the names above have either moved on from ZC, or with the big 4 are ageing. Probably none of the 7 you would pick are realistically 'the future' at all. Zimbabwe is Zimbabwe. The demographics are the demographics. ZC is ZC. We have to be realistic and realise what the actual future is in the real world. The future is overwhelmingly both black batters and black bowlers, probably with a couple of whites here and there. I don't think thats a bad thing long-term.

Anyway, I just find it confusing that in your original post you state;

a ) 'You can coach a batsman from nothing'

and

b ) race and 'ingrained generations of cricketing culture' are somehow relevant to a batsman being good.

They can't both be true can they

Yeah you are right this is an unrealistic side but I don't see why players like de grandhomme or balance couldn't play for Zim near the end of their careers. That is realistically possible. Also keeping one of the good youngsters like Welsh should have been possible if there was more stability. But all the nations except the top 3 and new Zealand lose some players to other nations, just not as many as Zimbabwe. The other nations like West Indies and Pakistan would have lost more players to UK if was as easy for them to play in UK as it used to be for Zimbabweans. The current situation is much harder for it to happen. It's a bit of anomaly really as many of these white families were emigrating at the same time so their kids are playing for other countries.