Managing our Bowlers

[FlowerPower]

This probably could have gone to the "Our Test Bowlers" thread, but indulge me a little I believe it deserves a separate thread. The thread is inspired by the following comment on Cummings by Michael Clarke on the wake of the recently end sussecful tour for the teen:

"We've got to be smart," Clarke said. "I don't think it's possible for Paddy right now to play all forms of the game for Australia. To play every single game I think would be silly. That's only my opinion. We need to speak to the selectors and we need to make a plan for him, because he's got a bright future. He's got the potential to be an amazing cricketer for Australia, and we have to be smart and make sure we look after him."

I believe the vibrant and enthusiastic debate going on in that thread is because of the precedent set by our selection policy. Post 2004, we had to make do with what we had, namely Mpofu, Rainsford, Mupariwa and Panyangara (then Steak came back briefly, and before him Brent, or was it after?...). Times were hard and resources bare, so these lads barely out of their teens were rushed through, with less than pleasing results. Eventually we accepted that pace was not our forte and relied on a 3 spin attack of Price, Cremer and Utseya. Chigs because of injuries also too a sabbatical. We eventually bowed out of the Test arena six years ago. Our 3 man spin attack in ODI was a viable approach and we religiously followed this with Mpofu being our paceman, and partimers filling in the 5 bowler spot (eventually becoming Chigs when he returned).

With Heath roped into the bowling brains trust we then stumbled upon Jarvis a breath of fresh air, a teenage sensation blessed with pace, and he showed promise (even if the results were not astounding). Mpofu in this time continued to grow, whilst Mupariwa fell out of favour and Panyangara and Rainsford, either lost form or were injured. Nicolson flirted with the ODI side, unfortunatley the SA tour of 2010 was his waterloo.

All throughout we really had no continuity. Continuity in the sence that we did not have the passing of the proverbial batton stick from one generation to the next. Specifically we never had a proper hand over take over from the Olonga-Streak-Mbangwa-Strang/Flower era, which should have translated to Streak-Brent-Blignaut/Hondo-Price (although a strike bowler, I had reservations about Blignaut as a Test player...sorry Bligz), which ought to have been around until at the very least 2009 (considering that Lee is still around!) but at very worst 2008, then finally to Mpofu-Hondo-Rainsford/Panyangara/Mupariwa -Cremer being well developed and experienced bowlers able to stand their ground for the next 3-5 years, with Jarvis-Vitori-Meth/Ncube/Querl/Chatara all BEING groomed for the next 3-5 years and comming through in 3-5 years time as 25-27yr old finished articles able to give a good solid 3-5 yrs at the very least...

However what has happened is because of the Post 2004 scenario, we have adopted a "flavour of the month" approach, where any hint of success is a ticket to the Test side. Don't get me wrong, I can rattle off a chain of prodegies that came via that route with minimal FC experience, Amir, Cummings, Steyn, etc...but in their set up they were exceptions rather than the rule. We on the otherhand have made this the rule and not the exception, i.e. Jarvis, Vitori, Ncube (to a lesser extent) and now we are clamouring for Querl, guys who have hardly played one and a half seasons of FC. Don't get me wrong, or let anyone tell you otherwise, they are class, but still raw and learning their trade. If it were a case of these guys coming in to an experienced attack (even in terms of FC) then they would be value, but a bunch of green lads is really a risky approach, and as my good friend hhm would say, sets a very dangerous precedent, of "if you get a few dozen then you're in", before you even find yourself as a bowler.

Post 2004 we could forgive the approach as we had no cover, the experience we had had moved on, Mbangwa, Streak, Olonga...but now its marginally different. We invested on Mpofu, Rainsford and Chigs, surely that should have bought us a bit more time to allow the youngsters to come through. Yes Jarvis is a prodigy by all means have him in and I'd say for Chigs the bowler (who on all accounts is NOT a useless bowler as some would like us to believe), and I will qualify this: Jarvis has pace which none of Mpofu, Rainsford and Chigs have. Jarvis is a strike bowler (and yes vs Pakistan he struggled) but overall a SR of 49 ain't bad (although it is early days yet), and considering that world number one Dale Steyn is SR of 39.8, and just to give perspective, Jimmy Anderson is a 56.4 and Stuart Broad is 62.9. So yes I'd consider him ahead of both Rainsford and Chigs, then I'd have to say Rainsford is a better bowler than Chigs. Vitori is an interesting one. He also has pace (covered via Jarvis) but importantly he is a left armer...but at 21 and just a season of FC I think we can allow him space and time to develop. If anything he can cover for Jarvis.

We also have a whole bunch of experienced, decent FC bowlers on track record or current form, Chinouya (25), Masakadza(25), Meth(23) have been around and their current form is impressive. Not world class yet, but we can also use them as cover for Rainsford and Mpofu. The group of Vitori, Ncube, Querl, Chatara can be groomed without artificial pressure, to gradually take over starting in 3 years time. By all means have them as first picks for A games, and allow exposure to ODI and the odd Test here and there, but invest heavily in their future, have them go to camps, bring in specialist coaches to work with them, insist that they are first picks in their franchise, and let them know they are the future.

So if I had to plot a sucession plan (very debatable, and not cast in stone, just my humble opinion)

Current 2011-2013+/-: Rainsford/Meth, Jarvis, Mpofu, Price (in the wings in order: Chinouya/Shingi, Vitori, Chinouya/Shingi, Cremer )

Future 2013-2015+/-: Vitori/Querl, Jarvis, Meth/Mpofu, Cremer ( in the wings in order: Chatara/Ncube, Querl, Chinouya/Shingi, Maruma/Mshangwe)

Far Future 2017 (WC): Jarvis, Vitori, Querl/Meth/Ncube/Chatara, Cremer...

Of course form, injury and new finds can always alter this plan, but I think if we approached things this way we could get somewhere in 10 yrs...thoughts gentlemen and Nozipho?

[hhm]

I enjoyed reading this as it's balanced and very well put together. It's relevance means you are more than entitled to share it with us.

...indulge me a little I believe it deserves a separate thread.

I believe the vibrant and enthusiastic debate going on in that thread is because of the precedent set by our selection policy.

We on the otherhand have made this the rule and not the exception, i.e. Jarvis, Vitori, Ncube (to a lesser extent) and now we are clamouring for Querl, guys who have hardly played one and a half seasons of FC. Don't get me wrong, or let anyone tell you otherwise, they are class, but still raw and learning their trade.

We invested on Mpofu, Rainsford and Chigs, surely that should have bought us a bit more time to allow the youngsters to come through. Yes Jarvis is a prodigy by all means have him in....Vitori is an interesting one. He also has pace but importantly he is a left armer...but at 21 and just a season of FC I think we can allow him space and time to develop. If anything he can cover for Jarvis.

We also have a whole bunch of experienced, decent FC bowlers on track record or current form, Chinouya (25), Masakadza(25), Meth(23) have been around and their current form is impressive. Not world class yet, but we can also use them as cover for Rainsford and Mpofu. The group of Vitori, Ncube, Querl, Chatara can be groomed without artificial pressure, to gradually take over starting in 3 years time. By all means have them as first picks for A games, and allow exposure to ODI and the odd Test here and there, but invest heavily in their future, have them go to camps, bring in specialist coaches to work with them, insist that they are first picks in their franchise, and let them know they are the future.

Indeed. It's all the selectors' doing. They should have dictated the 12man squad to the coaches, not give the coaches the liberty to give input based on brief, premature sightings. Sadly some of Bayhaus' conspiracy theories are proving to be true. With AC, then as part of the selection, plus the other mafia as part of the coaching setup, it was easy for them to make such questionable assessments.

When BRM ran polls to pick our Test side, I successfully lobbied to have Rainsford(with Mpofu) as our opening bowling pair for tests (lost out on a batsman in place of Cremer spinners philosphy ). Jarvis was part of the poll. Funnily enough we'd all seen him when he was an even faster fitter bowler, yet he lost out to them. Now he's back slower and less fitter, all of a sudden he's ranked ahead of the other guys, despite average performances since, and Rainsford is now slow rubbish?

[FlowerPower]

So you see hhm despite my vociferous disagreements on finer detail, I do get your point...I almost wanted to suggest such a poll for the test team, thanks for the link, that was before my time here! But asides the conspiracy theories do you agree we need to be more strategic and can actually afford to with the lot we have?

[hhm]

asides the conspiracy theories do you agree we need to be more strategic and can actually afford to with the lot we have?

I totally agree. It's only logical and to be expected that we handle things that way.

As for the sets of bowlers, I strongly believe that (10)Shingi&(11)Nicholson will in future be our longterm opening pair, with (8)Meth as the change bowler, plus (9)Cremer as the frontline spinner. I've said it plenty of times, but I'm almost convinced they will be our 4 core bowlers.

At the rate Jarvis is going of few FC games with plenty of short fromat international matches, interspersed with the odd test/two, plus plenty of camptime - he may not hold up to the rigour of Test cricket, and I won't have progressed much either. So those guys who are getting the training, no matter how inferior it is to being around the challenges in the international setup, will overtake him. They look stronger, more durable and are also quick and will only get quicker. NIcholson is having a below average time but we know what he's capable of, Shingi will learn how to contain. It looks to me that with those four we also have the potential to bat up to 10.

[FlowerPower]

asides the conspiracy theories do you agree we need to be more strategic and can actually afford to with the lot we have?

I totally agree. It's only logical and to be expected that we handle things that way.

As for the sets of bowlers, I strongly believe that (10)Shingi&(11)Nicholson will in future be our longterm opening pair, with (8)Meth as the change bowler, plus (9)Cremer as the frontline spinner. I've said it plenty of times, but I'm almost convinced they will be our 4 core bowlers.

At the rate Jarvis is going of few FC games with plenty of short fromat international matches, interspersed with the odd test/two, plus plenty of camptime - he may not hold up to the rigour of Test cricket, and I won't have progressed much either. So those guys who are getting the training, no matter how inferior it is to being around the challenges in the international setup, will overtake him. They look stronger, more durable and are also quick and will only get quicker. NIcholson is having a below average time but we know what he's capable of, Shingi will learn how to contain. It looks to me that with those four we also have the potential to bat up to 10.

I see what you mean, vis a vis Jarvis missing out on getting experience, but the same could be said about Steyn, who only has about 89 FC matches, in almost 10 years but that hasn't adversely affected him.

And Shingi and Nicolson (...ok is that just seeking attention or are you being real?)...Shingi is 25, bad news for him is he would need to get past Mpofu, Chinouya and Rainsford, (who are about the same age) and if we argue further that there are younger players who have performed better longer, e.g. Meth and new talent emerging (Jarvis, Vitori, Querl, Ncube, Chatara), how do you see him, firstly dislodging his age-mates, Rainsford and Mpofu...maybe lets say he's a different class of bowler and hence isn't gunning for the pace container role, and is looking at pace attack (strike bowler) role...then is he really better than Jarvis and Vitori (so much better he is "the future") and for Nicolson the latter question applies, but more to the point that is a discussion on the other thread...

[Conant]

Your ...thoughts gentlemen and Nozipho?

Ahem... Nozipho happens to be a man

[Shingi is 25, bad news for him is he would need to get past Mpofu, Chinouya and Rainsford, (who are about the same age) and if we argue further that there are younger players who have performed better longer, e.g. Meth and new talent emerging (Jarvis, Vitori, Querl, Ncube, Chatara), how do you see him, firstly dislodging his age-mates, Rainsford and Mpofu...maybe lets say he's a different class of bowler and hence isn't gunning for the pace container role, and is looking at pace attack (strike bowler) role...then is he really better than Jarvis and Vitori (so much better he is "the future") and for Nicolson the latter question applies, but more to the point that is a discussion on the other thread...

Don't forget however, that Shing was a late starter to the game. Started it early enough at Chipembere but went to Kutama High, which didn't have cricket. So for a good 5 years he didn't lift a bat in anger and most certainly didn't get proffesional coaching. It wasn't until a year or two after high school that he actively pursued cricket again. So in my mind Shingi is still a developing bowler, and can still overtake these young guns

[hhm]

I see what you mean, vis a vis Jarvis missing out on getting experience, but the same could be said about Steyn, who only has about 89 FC matches, in almost 10 years but that hasn't adversely affected him.

You are aware that we'll play one or two match series mostly right? Between 2012-2014 we will play just 9 tests(I doubt he will even bowl 18 innings) probably against watered down opposition batsmen at that, while in comparison there will be 24 FC matches for the rest, of which he will play only a few. The pasting he'll get from the international arena can hardly be termed fulfilling as far as his future prospects are concerned! Steyn's circumstances are completely different - plenty of Test matches, plus a far higher calibre of opposition in the domestic FC setup. Totally no comparison there! Quality world beating fast bowler out of a quality FC structure vs average no-one beating fast-medium bowler barely out of a decent FC structure.

I trust you remember I once mentioned that if we are to progress, then better than Mpofu(&Rainsford) must be unearthed, and I insisted we haven't found anyone better. So to clarify why I see these two as favorites to be replacements is that both Nicholson&Shingi have had stellar seasons so far. Bar the current one for Nicolson, but no one can even begin to think that he won't shake it off at some point(no harm in placing confidence in someone). They look to be made for Tests and have impressed me when I've seen them bowl - very raw but what was done to Mpofu can probably produce better out of them. Conant has done well to shed light on why Shingi may well turn out to be qualified for expectation heaped on him.

On the other hand, one loyal, consistent performer is Chinouya. He deserves a regular run in the XI games, and probably deserved to play an ODI ahead of all of Ncube, Meth, Nicholson and the other usual guys etc!

[hhm]

Nozipho happens to be a man

You must be kidding me. That's a female name. has to be a woman.

In any case, this phrase has a scent of feminine origins......I doubt a man can compose this, or put across the point in this fashion......

Guys if people do no want to play for Zim let them be, but Zim is going Places.

[Conant]

Nozipho happens to be a man

You must be kidding me. That's a female name. has to be a woman.

In any case, this phrase has a scent of feminine origins......I doubt a man can compose this, or put across the point in this fashion......

Guys if people do no want to play for Zim let them be, but Zim is going Places.

I kid you not. I too made that assumption but we exchanged PMs in which he/she revealed the he or she was living with his girlfriend. I was stumped, and my hopes dashed

[Jemisi]

Tough luck old chap.