Zimbabwe Vs Uganda | ICC T20 Qualifier | 26 November 2023

[mnelson68]

We have ourselves to blame.
Just yesterday we are all talking about how Wellington should not be picked at the expense of a batter.
He was picked and became a liability

Sorry but these performances continue to prove this position wrong.

Wellington may or may not be the answer - that’s a separate debate.

But name me a single successful T20 side, franchise or international, without a top class specialist spinner a big part of their success. In any conditions.

Our all rounders are not good enough, consistent enough, reliable bowlers in this format. They just aren’t and they continue to prove it.

There is no top class world standard spinner in the country

[Pat_Bee]

To some of these young guns though he’s just a moustachioed murungu who probably played timeless tests on uncovered decks.

Not true. He has huge respect from guys of all ages and backgrounds in the country.

Would you buy into his philosophy though? That would be like me buying into a player from the 50s or something. Sure they get my respect for their stats on paper but they’re just some old boy whose credentials I’d never seen first hand. Someone fresh off the circuit like how England have improved their test side under McCullum. Your side’s identity is the coach’s identity and if you’re coached by a pensioner then your identity is outdated cricket in my opinion.

I’d buy into Stevo more than Dave to be honest, he seems a good character and more relatable, he’s a foreigner who’s genuinely invested in the system and that commands my respect.

He was the logistics organiser/tour manager for many years (not sure if he still is) and was a school headteacher.

Sound yo. Completes the full house on the bingo of who’s who when dissecting this shambles on the road in Namibia

[Pat_Bee]

SOS to Chivanga. We need your thunderbolts and anger on pitch

Eish bro, you learnt as much as Raz Dawg, pace off was key today yo

He’d have put the frighteners on them though, more so than Larry with his 60kph pies. Could get a job at Bakers Inn that kid.

[Pat_Bee]

We have ourselves to blame.
Just yesterday we are all talking about how Wellington should not be picked at the expense of a batter.
He was picked and became a liability

Sorry but these performances continue to prove this position wrong.

Wellington may or may not be the answer - that’s a separate debate.

But name me a single successful T20 side, franchise or international, without a top class specialist spinner a big part of their success. In any conditions.

Our all rounders are not good enough, consistent enough, reliable bowlers in this format. They just aren’t and they continue to prove it.

There is no top class world standard spinner in the country

Pish posh. Brandon Mavuta was dynoMITE until he got timed out blazing mbanje yo

[eugene]

I have been working all day so missed seeing this cataclysmic defeat until now. I'm not sure where to begin. I think qualifying for the T20 WC is probably long shot now as I'm not sure I can see us getting passed Kenya and Collins Obuya.

Why do we always have senior players out with injury? Couldn't they play anyway? Glenn Maxwell hit a double century on one leg, surely Ervine could see off Uganda?

If we indeed don't qualify, it is time to move on from the senior players, its not like we are getting anywhere with them in the side. They aren't the difference between qualification and losing to associates. And come decisive matches where they need to bring us home, they fail. Raza probably should have been dropped for all time after the debacle at the CWC qualifiers. For a player of his experience to play that shot against Scotland was unforgivable, the pressure wasn't even on that point.

After 30 years of following this team, perhaps it is time to officially call it a day?

[Kriterion_BD]

Cannot say the result is very surprising at this point. If something happens 3 times out of 4 (UAE game, Scotland, and now Uganda) its probably not a one-off. This is where things stand at the moment.

Its hard to see how or more appropriately why Williams, Raza, and Ervine might wish to push on for another year or two. If it was me, it would start to get embarrassing to take the field against top sides or even the likes of Ireland and Netherlands at this stage.

The issue that is probably now becoming somewhat conceivable and perhaps more relevant than which coach gets fired and which players get retired, is what might the ICC's response be in the coming years?

My dark prediction - given how we know the ICC operates - is come 2026 they realize that given Zimbabwe auto qualification for the 27 WC as host is a bad look when better teams like Namibia or Nepal or Netherlands have to qualify and make Zimbabwe qualify.

While its true the core seniors of Taylor, Williams, Raza, Ervine, Jarvis, and Cremer have only managed to qualify for 1 world cup out of 4 attempts (assuming the current campaign does not result in qualification)...its hard to feel any more optimistic about a side where Kaia, Madhevere, and Burl are suddenly the marquee batters.

[Pat_Bee]

I have been working all day so missed seeing this cataclysmic defeat until now. I'm not sure where to begin. I think qualifying for the T20 WC is probably long shot now as I'm not sure I can see us getting passed Kenya and Collins Obuya.

Why do we always have senior players out with injury? Couldn't they play anyway? Glenn Maxwell hit a double century on one leg, surely Ervine could see off Uganda?

If we indeed don't qualify, it is time to move on from the senior players, its not like we are getting anywhere with them in the side. They aren't the difference between qualification and losing to associates. And come decisive matches where they need to bring us home, they fail. Raza probably should have been dropped for all time after the debacle at the CWC qualifiers. For a player of his experience to play that shot against Scotland was unforgivable, the pressure wasn't even on that point.

After 30 years of following this team, perhaps it is time to officially call it a day?

Cataclysmic Collins Obuya yes.

Ervine perhaps luckily for himself avoided today’s trainwreck so he’s alright and gets away unscathed on this thread at least.

Raz Dawg for all his form has cocked up a lot this year. Dropped for all time is an over reaction though

Never call it a day.

[Jemisi]

we're the West Indies of this tournament

[Pat_Bee]

Like that old white haired I assume Asian guy who’s in the inner circle of the team (or was?) like who the fuck is he?! got no beef with him though, clearly ZC like having him around.

He was the logistics organiser/tour manager for many years (not sure if he still is) and was a school headteacher.

He’s got the sweetest gig of all watching all the action from the inner circle. No interviews, no pressure and not his problem when the boys fail, he did his job getting the boys and their kit to the right place at the time. Scored himself an official ZC track suit, training jersey, blazer, shirt and tie for his trouble Never failed to deliver once that guy.

[sixes fan]

Cannot say the result is very surprising at this point. If something happens 3 times out of 4 (UAE game, Scotland, and now Uganda) its probably not a one-off. This is where things stand at the moment.

Its hard to see how or more appropriately why Williams, Raza, and Ervine might wish to push on for another year or two. If it was me, it would start to get embarrassing to take the field against top sides or even the likes of Ireland and Netherlands at this stage.

The issue that is probably now becoming somewhat conceivable and perhaps more relevant than which coach gets fired and which players get retired, is what might the ICC's response be in the coming years?

My dark prediction - given how we know the ICC operates - is come 2026 they realize that given Zimbabwe auto qualification for the 27 WC as host is a bad look when better teams like Namibia or Nepal or Netherlands have to qualify and make Zimbabwe qualify.

While its true the core seniors of Taylor, Williams, Raza, Ervine, Jarvis, and Cremer have only managed to qualify for 1 world cup out of 4 attempts (assuming the current campaign does not result in qualification)...its hard to feel any more optimistic about a side where Kaia, Madhevere, and Burl are suddenly the marquee batters.

To be honest only Burl is the marquee batter left, his average and record speaks otherwise but he will certainly gain by moving up to 3/4. Nick Welch has the opening spot cemented ( in a normal world ) but it’s ZC someone somewhere somehow thinks Kaia or Marumani are better options. Madhevere I guess no one really knows if he is really that good, reckless or this is just what he can offer. Not selecting him for a few tours to see his reaction would have been best but ZC can’t afford to drop him never mind we don’t know where he should even bat but we might get something from him. The 3 bowlers Muza, Rich and Evans at least we still have them for the next +5 years but same as today one gets injured and or is out of form we are f..kd. We have no proper front line spinner not even in the domestic league, what has ZC been doing or planning? We rely on Raza and Williams a lot and drop them then we have lost our best batsman, fielders and experienced slow bowlers, I mean as fans we are only secure when either Ervine, Williams, Raza or Burl is under a catch their retirement from the game will be astronomical. Optimism for ZC at the moment is at 0.00

1: My best bet is keep the coaching stuff, a new coach will start recycling Tsiga, Kamunhukamwe hoping to find a miracle whilst we slide further into a dark pit.
2: Throw money at Byrom, Higgins, Cartwright etc straight into the national setup. The downside of it is bringing in those 6-7 players 99% will be white and Utseya and Co are against it.
3: Reform, restructure the whole domestic setup. A good quality coach for the national team only is not enough. Bring in Grant Flower, Gary Brent even Mangongo etc for the franchises. Have oversight on selection and contracting, you have players who have been in the domestic setup for +10 years and never got a national call up but they still play day in day out.
4: Re establish Zim A tours and get them to play as many games as possible against the top teams or ask for them to join the SA domestic league :: selection is still crucial though it makes no sense when you see them sending Roy Kaia, Mutombodzi, Gumbie, Tsiga, Shumba etc . We already have Bennet, Muyeye, Myers, Frost, Booth, Bawa, Roche, Matigimu, Schanderndoffs, Munyonga, MattWelch etc all very capable players but need time and investing into. Might work might not but we are already on collision into former cricket nation as things stand