The harsh reality

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eugene
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The harsh reality

Post by eugene »

In light of the disastrous West Indies tour I think it is evident that most of the Zimbabwean players just aren't very good, relative to other international cricketers. And unfortunately those that do possess international-calibre talent (Sibanda, Masakadza, Taylor) don't currently have the mental resilience to ride out tough situations. Gone are the days of Andy Flower and Guy Whittall digging in and rescuing Zimbabwe from complete embarrasment.

The unfortunate reality is that the up and coming players aren't any better and if Under-19 results are anything to go by, they are in fact far inferior. How many players can we earmark as the next Sibanda or Taylor, let alone the next Streak or Andy Flower? From time to time we will get teased with the odd victory and upset but I just don't see Zimbabwe being at all competitive on a regular basis anytime soon. Bangladesh, our fellow strugglers will eventually surpass us due to sheer player numbers and New Zealand will always produce enough guys to keep them competitive. This leaves Zimbabwe alone at the bottom in a no-mans land.

These thoughts are not a knee-jerk reaction to a poor string of results, they are a reaction to a decade of poor results. The 1999 World Cup really seems to have been the peak for Zimbabwe and it has gone downhill from there.

Going forward is it more realistic for Zimbabwe to become an Associate with full ODI and T20 status, similar to Kenya, Ireland, Afghanistan? At least then we could primarily focus on the limited overs form of the game? I don't know if this is the answer but I am putting it out there as an idea. I guess the downside of this idea could be that investment in cricket will diminish further and the player exodus increase.

I would be interested in other forumites ideas, including ones full of positivity and blind patriotism - I am rather depressed with everything at the moment.
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Re: The harsh reality

Post by Train Driver »

The harsh reality is that Zimbabwe are a totally second rate side and light years away from competing in any way, if this side were to play 4/5 day cricket against Afghanistan or Ireland tomorrow then i've no doubt whatsoever that they would be easily beaten by both

I don't believe that the ICC will allow this to continue for much longer, if they are generous then Zim may keep their place in ODI and T20 cricket, but even that must be in doubt and if the humiliation and slaughter continues then who wants a continuation anyway ?

I don't see a hope in hell of finding 15 young players who could progress to international standard and i've never had so little hope for Zim cricket than now, that's not just because of this tour but after an awful domestic season as well

All that's needed as far as i can see is a new Head Coach, new batting and bowling coaches, new players and some money in order to try and strengthen the grass roots Zim game, also a ban on overseas players taking captaincy and wicket keeper roles in domestic cricket, oh yes, and a completely new outlook on selection. Chatara made a goodish start but why on earth was he in the side at the expense of players like Mpofu, Meth and Rainsford ?

Maybe this A Team funding may kickstart things in some way, personally though i can't see it

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Re: The harsh reality

Post by Kriterion_BD »

Chatara took some good wickets, bowled a gem of a yorker yesterday and some are questioning why he was selected? Hhm, has been on a crusade against Jarvis, and based on stats that young bloke would walk into India, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh's first XIs.

Zimbabwe are struggling on all fronts, but the batting against pace isn't hopeless. None of Roach, Best, or Gabriel ran away with wickets on their home turf. But Shillingford and Samuels exposed the spin weakness. I think it would be wise to spend some of the funds on bringing in overseas spinners into domestic leagues. Go for young players who are unheard of, but have good first class records. Someone like a Saqlain Sajib from Bangladesh.
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Re: The harsh reality

Post by Boundary »

I'm a black guy and I'm proud, proud, of the multi racial make up of the team and the potential that that represents. But the fact is that the part time players, Lowveld farmers (for instance) would make a tougher team than any of this crop. Brandes didn't care about the status of McGrath, Warne and Co. He wanted - no, he needed - to beat them. Those guys from the 80s and 90s, who ushered in the Test status, were fighters. The likes of Andy Flower later added a professional outlook that raised the standards further. The early 2000 generation was supposed to take it further. Oh well ...

Anyway, now we are left in tatters. Our first class system isn't near good enough but it's still worth something. Let's keep it. However, International cricket in Zim is in a precarious position. We don't deserve it. We have, perhaps, one more chance before it's yanked away. Let's use that chance wisely. The plan to re-introduce Tests gradually was lauded here a few years ago but we have to admit it has backfired. The only way to improve performance is to play regularly, to have the next match whilst the sting of a defeat lingers. Waiting fuels doubt. But right now, which board besides Bangladesh will invite or accept invitation to play us? None.

So we're likely facing another international drought. Deservedly, I might add. So we should take time out to come out with a different plan. I suggested in the match thread that we should arrange a tough, intensive, non-stop 18 month long "A" tour. Play against tough first class and "A" sides, learn to face really fast bowling, really clever spin and dogged batting. The Logan Cup does't teach these values yet. At the end of the intense tour, there should be regular 3 Tests series arranged, no short cuts. If we still can't handle it after that, we should just fold, become an Associate and reminisce about the good ol' days.

I think I found support for that idea. But the only question is, who should be selected? The current squad or the next generation? I vote next generation because these current guys have an ingrained mental nervousness that can't be got rid of. Vusi can score a 100 in a tour match but can't score much when the tv cameras are switched on. Same with everyone. Except Price. And Mushangwe and Chatara. Those two illustrate my point.

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Re: The harsh reality

Post by sloandog »

What next generation ? There isn't a next generation! They've already left, and will continue to leave. One of the highly touted youngsters in the country, Sam Curran, has left, Eddie Byrom will probably follow, and god knows who else there is.

In Zimbabwe, right now, I guarantee there is another Heath Streak, or Andrew Flower. He might be 10, he might be 5, but in Zimbabwe there will be somebody who has the potential to reach those heights; there is! It's part of the ZC to find that boy early, develop him, and then make sure he's ready. But it's not happened, nor will it ever happen as long the current cancer that's infested itself in the heart of ZC continue to grow.

It's a nice, and calculated idea that you have boundry, and I would actually support it, but if you want to choose the 'next generation', you have actually have the next generation. Who would you pick excluding Chatar, Mushangwe, Mutombodzi and Jarvis? (The men you mentioned). Nathan Waller ? PJ Moor ? I wouldn't. Waller sounds like a 70Mph bowler and can bat a bit, and Moor sounds like a good batter, and perhaps with time may develop, but has shown no real ability to construct an innings that the rebel generation illustrated when they were first coming through the Zimbabwe First class structure, wether it be in the 90's (Wishart, Carlisle) or the early 2000's (S.Ervine, Marrilliar, Taibu). All the players above showed early promise domestically, and showed an ability to develop. The current crop aren't doing this mate, the sad fact is we don't have the generation we once had, or the luxury to take away '15 youngsters' on an almost 2 year around the world trip.

If ZC is to survive within the next 2 years, one thing must be done...purge the board of any corruption and make sure tha- ah who am i kidding!

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Re: The harsh reality

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

the current team aer pretty much the u/19 side of the 2005 world cup. the one that beat aus.

mind you they were by no mean a team of contenders, they still only got to the plate... but they contained a few characters who can hold a candle internationally. those guys are all about 27/8 nw and are doing what they can.

thje problem is there is NOTHING coming through the pipeline. a few bright sparks here and there but they have left as sloan pointed out. its depressing.

the hammys,taylors and sibandas are so far ahead domestically but so far behind internationally. imagine the b team?


what we need to do is make zc look like an attractive career option. money at the top and on time no other way...

and for FFS we have to drop a logan cup team. the gap is too big between first class and international
les at least weed out the bottom 11 players from the scene and save cash and slightly up the standard that way.
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Re: The harsh reality

Post by Jemisi »

A tours are important. Perticularly to spinning and seaming destinations. I think a tour of England and India with the full national side to play FC cricket teams would be good in between international fixtures. SL and BD too. We could risk playing in Pakistan who are starved of cricket - though I wouldn't necessarily wish that on the players.

The LC is gaining strength. The base is broadening, the pinnacle of talent isn't visible, but there is space for younger players to be groomed in a tougher environment than they have been in the last decade. But FC domestic cricket will go away if we lose tests. We need the top level to sustain the base.

Admin needs cleaning, but as I said we need the country cleaned up a bit for that to happen.

Our bowling did pretty well in the series. We took 19/700. That is pretty good by anyone's away standards.

The fielding seems to have bounced back from the nadir.

The batting did ok against seam on away pitches, we just treated Shilingford and Samuels like they were Murali and Saqlain.

The captain had a rotten tour. 120 odd runs from 9 digs. He kept ok, and maybe that will be required of him so that Chigs can bat 7. We won the warmup and drew the other warmup.

One thing that must occur is that we need to organise a minimum of two List A, 1 T20, 2 FC games as part of each tour. We have to stop playing 14 a side stuff and play a minimum of those five games so that everyone has more time to acclimatise and play at least 2 proper games on a tour outside of the internationals. We are not India trying to fit things into tight schedules. A 5%-10% improvement per player could be conceived of from doing this. We need to spend more time in foreign conditions, the only way to do this realistically is to add games whilst you have already paid for the plane tickets.

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Re: The harsh reality

Post by brmtaylor.com admin »

Come on guys, it's not the end of the world. We batted poorly but we didn't get routed for 35. We actually bowled pretty well on this tour, it's not like we were conceding 3/750 declared. That's the sort of humiliation you can look forward to for those suggesting we ditch the current lot of players or decide to take another "hiatus" from Test cricket.

Let's just call a spade a spade. We had a bad tour, we move on.

Ultimately there was only one thing to come out of this tour that needs addressing (and it's not a new problem for Zimbabwe) - how to play spin bowling. I've said a few times; instead of English batsmen we need Indian spinners in the Logan Cup. Instead of a short A tour, send the national team to Sri Lanka for 2 months and learn how to play spin against domestic sides.

Taylor and Masakadza, our two best batsmen, were out of form. Without these two firing Zimbabwe won't win many matches, let alone Test matches.

Bring on Bangladesh. Zimbabwe can hold their own at home; the best way to silence the critics would be to win the upcoming Test series 2-0. If the bowlers continue their good form and Taylor and Masakadza get amongst the runs we'll have no problems.

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Re: The harsh reality

Post by TheBradDevil »

Guys in this forum seem to miss one important step in the bridging the talent gap that exists between age group level and national team level. Our high school level cricket is in good order, almost on par in terms of performance to SA schools, participating in festivals there and competing well. It is exactly the same problem with rugby, were our U19s go to Craven Week and compete well, were do those players go after that? What happens to all those naturally talented players with an interest and love for the game who graduate from high school, and find themselves in tertiary education still with the passion, but no platform to showcase their talent? We under-estimate this but most of SAs or any of the top teams players were spotted by counties or franchises while playing in the universities league. SA does this well for both Rugby and Cricket( FNB Varsity Cup etc) hence their reserves always seem to be stocked full of players waiting for a run in the provincial and national sides. What do we have in Zim, besides close to 20 000 university and college students who were at one point introduced to the game, but did not get a chance to further develop their game with proper coaches? Lost to the game forever, your future Streaks and Flowers. ZC has a program in which every high school and district has a ZC-certified coach, but this only takes care of U19 level. Why not do the same for tertiary institutes? This is not an immediate fix, but long term it is a guaranteed widening of the current player pool by some margin. Let's get tht in order, and our future is in a better state than it seems now.
( Speaking as a student from a local university with access to 2 test-status grounds(BAC AND Queens), but with no team to use these facilities)

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Re: The harsh reality

Post by brmtaylor.com admin »

In Zimbabwe's history, how many of the best players have been university educated?
It could well be part of the problem... I wonder how many players are being lost because they are at university in other countries. Masakadza is one notable exception; he came back.

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