[Series Thread] Bangladesh in South Africa 2017

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pariah
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Re: [Series Thread] Bangladesh in South Africa 2017

Post by pariah » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:36 am

By the way, consider what Shakib's allround performance in just that one Test against Australia did to his ratings in Allround rankings (the first one only, not the second one). It catapulted him immensely. Now imagine how much his performance in just one Test vs SA would have done for him.

Overall his batting record against the top sides (AUS, ENG, SA and IND) is poor. You can't deny that much. I stand to be corrected, but he has just 3 fifties in 20 tests against them. Some of the Zimbabweans you lambast have similar batting records to him against those very same sides. Even John Nyumbu has a fifer versust South Africa. Against them, his trumpcard is his bowling, which is why his batting performance against Australia, coupled with his bowling really did wonders to his improvement. As things stand, he will have a lower appreciation than Ashwin and Pollock, who are known almost entirely for their bowling, and batted way lower than Shakib does.

In the end, Shakib will have a lower rating/ranking than the late Richie Benaud, simply because he turned up just a handful of times against proper opposition. It's such tours to SA which would have helped Shakib to be held in higher regard, because he genuinely can bat and bowl better than most before him. Flintoff went to Pakistan among the last few tours hosted there, and he did well well with his bowling outbowling several greats, better allround than Malik, plus out-batted a number of top ENG & PAK batsmen. That's why he's a great allrounder.

Does Shakib still have time to do the same? Of course, he's still to turn 31. But Flintoff already had a good batting and bowling record against a number of the elite sides before then. Shakib will need to play extremely well to achieve that, but he won't even get a chance if for whatever reason he thinks it's justifiable to miss a tour to SA. Plenty batting and bowling giants from SL, PAK and NZ have come here no matter how much they were embarassed by reserves like de Lange, Abbott. Shakib should have shown more respect, not just for the opposition but the game. If he doesn't change his attitude, he'll be a Chris Cairns level allrounder, nothing more.

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

Kriterion_BD
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Re: [Series Thread] Bangladesh in South Africa 2017

Post by Kriterion_BD » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:44 pm

pariah wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:36 am


Overall his batting record against the top sides (AUS, ENG, SA and IND) is poor. You can't deny that much. I stand to be corrected, but he has just 3 fifties in 20 tests against them. Some of the Zimbabweans you lambast have similar batting records to him against those very same sides. Even John Nyumbu has a fifer versust South Africa. Against them, his trumpcard is his bowling, which is why his batting performance against Australia, coupled with his bowling really did wonders to his improvement. As things stand, he will have a lower appreciation than Ashwin and Pollock, who are known almost entirely for their bowling, and batted way lower than Shakib does.
Yes Shakib struggles with the bat, but that is not surprising given his poor technique. He has the 2nd highest average on the team, and as a top order batsman he is important to the side. But he's at best our 3rd best and/or most important batsman. At the moment I would rate him behind Mushfiq, Tamim, and Mominul in that order in terms of his importance. And once Mosaddek comes back, Shakib ought to be 5th. Ie he would have the same batting importance in our side that Ganguly had for India.

Shakib doesn't just have a fiver versus SA...he has one on a greentop in SA. He has another in England. In fact R Ashwin has none in those countries. In fact R Ashwin's away average is only 2 runs lower than Shakib's.
Truth is on the side of the oppressed; its against the oppressor. Time is on the side of the oppressed; its against the oppressor. You don't need anything else.
[Malcolm X]

Kriterion_BD
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Re: [Series Thread] Bangladesh in South Africa 2017

Post by Kriterion_BD » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:47 pm

pariah wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:07 am

At 31, he's played just 51 Tests, extremely few of which have been wins, and they are very recent. True, he is a genuine allrounder, but so are Ashwin, Jadeja and Moeen Ali - all 3 of whom predominantly play elite Tests against full strength sides, while Shakib still trails Ashwin's highest grading. No one wants to viewed as a weaker allrounder than Ashwin.
The ICC rankings take opposition strenght into account. I'm pretty sure its done for individual rankings which is why Bumrah shot up the ODI bowling records so fast, yet Mustafiz languishes well below despite having superior stats.

Shakib is still the #1 rated all-rounder - I believe in all 3 formats. He's not worried about being rated as weaker than Ashwin.
Truth is on the side of the oppressed; its against the oppressor. Time is on the side of the oppressed; its against the oppressor. You don't need anything else.
[Malcolm X]

pariah
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Re: [Series Thread] Bangladesh in South Africa 2017

Post by pariah » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:54 pm

Preview SA vs BD 1st Test
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/1090 ... 8-2017-18/

Mushfiqur Rahim quote
"We have brought five fast bowlers and three of them will play in the first Test. I think they know all too well that if they don't perform, there are others to take their place so that should be motivation enough."
He means business :lol: :lol: :lol:

CSA should have taken them Newlands or Centurion. Why subject such pitches to the Australians only. BD 30 all out! :D

Zimbabwe used to underestimate "quotas" in SA then and Monde Zondeki destroyed them -
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/1489 ... st-series/

Never mind Rabada, Phehlukwayo, Ngidi, Tsotsobe etc, the likes of Siboto, Magala, Gqamane etc would do the same today too. Same applies to BD.

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

Kriterion_BD
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Re: [Series Thread] Bangladesh in South Africa 2017

Post by Kriterion_BD » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:35 pm

I wont mind a greentop...a few abject failures will hopefully weed out the undeserving selections like Imrul/Sabbir/Mahmudullah and any others. Any of those 3 score decent runs, then full credit to them. But I believe Mosaddek (who is unfit) and of course Shakib should replace Sabbir and Mahmudullah.
Truth is on the side of the oppressed; its against the oppressor. Time is on the side of the oppressed; its against the oppressor. You don't need anything else.
[Malcolm X]

pariah
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Re: [Series Thread] Bangladesh in South Africa 2017

Post by pariah » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:15 am

Very kind pitch for BD. :)

Still I really don't know why they would want to bat last on it instead of taking advantage, bat first and score heavily? :?

Anyway Markram gets his first runs. He's been uncharacteristically watchfull, playing against his natural instincts to attack (or BD have bowled well :| ). Let's see how he goes.

Phehlukeayo is in. I'm very disappointed that Ramela is not.

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

Kriterion_BD
Posts: 2534
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: [Series Thread] Bangladesh in South Africa 2017

Post by Kriterion_BD » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:10 am

pariah wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:15 am
Very kind pitch for BD. :)

Still I really don't know why they would want to bat last on it instead of taking advantage, bat first and score heavily? :?

Anyway Markram gets his first runs. He's been uncharacteristically watchfull, playing against his natural instincts to attack (or BD have bowled well :| ). Let's see how he goes.

Phehlukeayo is in. I'm very disappointed that Ramela is not.
Who is Ramela?
Truth is on the side of the oppressed; its against the oppressor. Time is on the side of the oppressed; its against the oppressor. You don't need anything else.
[Malcolm X]

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jaybro
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Re: [Series Thread] Bangladesh in South Africa 2017

Post by jaybro » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:20 am

3 African players in the XI is this a first ?

I guess they're trying to make up for only playing Bavuma against England when Rabada was suspended ??
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

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jaybro
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Re: [Series Thread] Bangladesh in South Africa 2017

Post by jaybro » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:23 am

Pretty weak by Bangladesh to bowl first on a pitch that looks good for batting. They really needed to bat first and lay the platform.

They'll be playing catch up the whole match now
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

pariah
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Re: [Series Thread] Bangladesh in South Africa 2017

Post by pariah » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:38 am

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:10 am
pariah wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:15 am
Very kind pitch for BD. :)

Still I really don't know why they would want to bat last on it instead of taking advantage, bat first and score heavily? :?

Anyway Markram gets his first runs. He's been uncharacteristically watchfull, playing against his natural instincts to attack (or BD have bowled well :| ). Let's see how he goes.

Phehlukeayo is in. I'm very disappointed that Ramela is not.
Who is Ramela?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/1133 ... icial-Test

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/1070 ... -Africa-A-

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/1113 ... icial-Test

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8877 ... pe-Cobras-

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8656 ... ghts-Final

Handy bowler too:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8877 ... il-series/

Mbhalati http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica ... 46526.html
Fojela http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 45206.html
Sadly, neither got a chance to put on a Proteas jersey but some will moan when green Andile&Ngidi do:cry:

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