[Series Thread] Bangladesh in South Africa 2017

[jaybro]

You can ever be wrong can you Kriterion

[jaybro]

Markam confirmed to debut for South Africa against BD

Crazy that South Africa would schedule 10 Tests at home this summer that's quite a work load on their players, especially their bowlers.

I fear for Rabada as the the pressure for him to play every game will be high due to CSA trying to meet their quota. I guess that means Bavuma is guaranteed to play every test regardless of how poor he plays.

[Kriterion_BD]

You can ever be wrong can you Kriterion

Rarely. I attribute it to growing up watching (and playing a bit of the flag variety) American football. Football has the most complex tactical aspect of any sport out there. Cricket is probably a second, but there is daylight between the two on that front. Even with my elementary grasp of football, it leaves you analytically light years ahead of other sports' fans IMO.

Players I've been wrong about include:

Back in 2007 during the WC this one Indian fan claimed Shakib would be a good player. I figured he only said it because all 3 teenagers (Tamim, Shakib, Mushfiq) hit fifties in that game. At any rate, I didn't rate Shakib due to his poor technique until he actually started scoring big runs in clutch situations. I was definitely wrong about him.

I did have Shahriar Nafees marked for big things in 2005, and it seemed he would when he smashed the likes of Warne and McGill around the next year. But he's since disappeared.

I did think Shahadat Hossain would do big things. That was another miss.

[pariah]

If Bangladesh gets a hiding, as is looking likely already, what hope with Zimbabwe have?

Very unfair of Sakib to miss out on this tour, unless he was injured.

[pariah]

If Markram tries to dominate bowlers and not give Test cricekt the respect it deserves he will flop badly.

So many talents have come out of South Africa lately in various formats and failed at least initially - Rilee, Stiaan van Zyl, Morne van Wyk, Vilas, Heino Kuhn, Cook, Levi, Jon Jon and even QdK had a horror start. I doubt Markram will survive the Test equivalent of QdK. he won;t have such patience extended to him.

People are quick to forget that AB was precisely what Markram is now, and they both belong to the same franchise(club), plus are openers. AB was multiple times more talented than Markram as an opener, but failed. Batting at 4 was very hard for QdK too.

Already Markram has a weakness against spin. Bangladesh and India are touring. they have plenty of those, the Indians being more testing.

It's about time SA had a good partner for Elgar, and that will help Amla to start dominating too. Thos ebenefits will filter down to Faf, Bavuma and QdK too. Theunis de Bruyn/AB as well.

Hopefully there's a positive. The bowlers will be challenged too due to injuries. Rabada, Morkel and Duanne won't be enough. They're all attacking seamers, and Duanne can leak very badly. I still don't rate him yet.

Having said all of this, in the right kind of pitches, BD will be hopeless against this SA seam attack. 200 runs in a innings will be an overachievement. Just ask Pakistan and SL. Or even NZ. This is wher etechnically correct players come in handy. How many does BD have? Tamim and Mushfiqur? Are they really technically correct batsmen?

[Kriterion_BD]

If Bangladesh gets a hiding, as is looking likely already, what hope with Zimbabwe have?

Very unfair of Sakib to miss out on this tour, unless he was injured.

Its disappointing that Shakib is out, but you have to understand the guy is not only a T20 mercenary like Gayle, Pollard, and others, but also plays full time for the national team in all 3 formats and is a full time bowler as well. IPL, BPL, CPL, PSL, and even stints in BBL, Natwest Blast he plays everywhere even if only for a match or 2.

I am actually predicting SA to put out some flat pitches. We aren't India or Australia who will get the green carpet treatment. SA will suspect they can blast us out even on a highway - which they could. But on a flat track I would expect us to push the game to a 5th day, if we play up to our potential.

The problem with Bangladesh is that our slip fielders suck. I would be surprised if they held onto 25% of the chances that come their way.

[pariah]

If Bangladesh gets a hiding, as is looking likely already, what hope with Zimbabwe have?

Very unfair of Sakib to miss out on this tour, unless he was injured.

Its disappointing that Shakib is out, but you have to understand the guy is not only a T20 mercenary like Gayle, Pollard, and others, but also plays full time for the national team in all 3 formats and is a full time bowler as well. IPL, BPL, CPL, PSL, and even stints in BBL, Natwest Blast he plays everywhere even if only for a match or 2.

I am actually predicting SA to put out some flat pitches. We aren't India or Australia who will get the green carpet treatment. SA will suspect they can blast us out even on a highway - which they could. But on a flat track I would expect us to push the game to a 5th day, if we play up to our potential.

The problem with Bangladesh is that our slip fielders suck. I would be surprised if they held onto 25% of the chances that come their way.

I'm aware of Shakib's workload. But it's questionable for a player to miss out on such a huge Series away which could have really catapulted him to a higher level of recognition had he perfromed to a high standard. It's such things which a player regrets when they retire. After all, he's 31 years, not 26 anymore. Never played a Test in Australia. Just once in IND, and has a pathetic record in ENG and SA. He doesn't even have a ton in ZIM and WI, the next weakest Test sides. Not that he's been convinving in SL either. His bowling record overseas is horrific too. Having flopped in IND, SL and been terrible against PAK(at homwe!). So from an allround perspective, he can't even lay claim to any consideration with either bat or ball overseas. The way I look at it, this is the kind of tour your plan for way ahead to make sure that you don't miss it.

About the SA pitches BD will play at, they don't really have an identity, but mostly flat. So it won't be deliberate, but coincidental. If they do prove to be seamer friendly, then it's part of startegy(and Markram won't be too happy either). But just like Shakib's poor attitude to this tour, the same can be said of BCB for settling on just on FC practice match. That's stupid.

Anyway, I can't wait for Thursday. I'll try and make it to the ground for at least one of the days in each Test. Plus hopefully the 3rd ODI too if it's not "Sean Williams territory" by then.

[Kriterion_BD]

If you are aware of the workload, you'd give him the benefit of the doubt. His family lives in Minnesota, so he also travels to the US a lot. I think he was in NYC just before the Australia series.

Shakib has little to prove with either the bad or the ball. He has 6 fer in SA already and a 5 fer in England. He has double ton and another century in NZ, good averages in India, decent averages in SL. Doesn't need to score runs in ZIM, where btw he averages a healthy 37 anyways. How many of the class Vusis, Eltons, and Masakadzas average 37 in ZIM?

As a genuine all rounder, he can change the course of a Test with either bat or ball...he doesnt have contribute in both at the same time like lesser all rounders.

His away bowling average is 33, at home 32. He has very few blemishes on his record, and if he plays a other 5-8 years should get chances to fix most of the 3 or 4 places he needs to fix.

Wasim struggled in England. Murali and Warne struggled in India. Very few quicks from Steyn to Broad, Boult, Morkel, Philander have fivers in Bangladesh. Shakib has fivers in SA and England.

[jaybro]

I dont understand how Hhm can sit here and pick a part a player like Sakib who has done so well in his career but than talk about the likes of Hami, Chigs, Utseya and Vusi in such high regard when these guys average 20 with the bat and well over 40 with the ball

ZERO IDEA

ZERO CLASS

[pariah]

If you are aware of the workload, you'd give him the benefit of the doubt. His family lives in Minnesota, so he also travels to the US a lot. I think he was in NYC just before the Australia series.

Shakib has little to prove with either the bad or the ball. He has 6 fer in SA already and a 5 fer in England. He has double ton and another century in NZ, good averages in India, decent averages in SL. Doesn't need to score runs in ZIM, where btw he averages a healthy 37 anyways. How many of the class Vusis, Eltons, and Masakadzas average 37 in ZIM?

As a genuine all rounder, he can change the course of a Test with either bat or ball...he doesnt have contribute in both at the same time like lesser all rounders.

His away bowling average is 33, at home 32. He has very few blemishes on his record, and if he plays a other 5-8 years should get chances to fix most of the 3 or 4 places he needs to fix.

Wasim struggled in England. Murali and Warne struggled in India. Very few quicks from Steyn to Broad, Boult, Morkel, Philander have fivers in Bangladesh. Shakib has fivers in SA and England.

My post was well meaning and in no way designed to attack or undermine Shakib, and I am measuring him in the class to which I think he should belong. You are the one underminining him by needlessly and sarcastically drawing parallels with those ZIM players.

In professionalism, personal circumstances should never be a factor. Whether or not you agree with me, he will regret such decisions.

At 31, he's played just 51 Tests, extremely few of which have been wins, and they are very recent. True, he is a genuine allrounder, but so are Ashwin, Jadeja and Moeen Ali - all 3 of whom predominantly play elite Tests against full strength sides, while Shakib still trails Ashwin's highest grading. No one wants to viewed as a weaker allrounder than Ashwin.