South Africa Watch

For discussion of any non-Zimbabwean cricket.
sloandog
Posts: 7378
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:28 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos
Location: Manchester UK

Re: South Africa Watch

Post by sloandog » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:54 pm

Players who need to be being looked at, in my opinion, can be found below.

Future batters of South African Cricket:
. Aiden Markram - Obviously been bedded in nicely, but has to be stuck with. His ODI stats are dreadful but he'll get there. So talented, stupidly in fact.
. Zubayr Hamza
. Raynard Van Tonder
. Kyle Verreynne
. Jannamen Malan
. Matthew Breetzke
. Bryce Parsons (Simply remember this kids name).
. Andrew Louw

Kriterion_BD
Posts: 4236
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: South Africa Watch

Post by Kriterion_BD » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:45 pm

jaybro wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:02 am
With the Proteas getting their arses handed to them over in India it’s probably a good time to have another look at this thread. A lot of what I said in my first post has been pretty accurate, the player drain has continued and has started to take its toll on results big time.

Honestly Zimbabwe wouldn’t do much worse than what South Africa are dishing up in India, in fact I reckon they’d do better. This South African side has folded like a deck of cards, seriously lacking leadership out there.

Imagine how bad it will be in 10 years time ?
SA competed fairly well in the first Test - showed some fight at least. But they totally lost the plot after that. Its difficult to imagine that India are as good as these scores look or that SA are as bad. Here's the question, though...would England have fared much better? How about Australia? Australia you reckon would have surely done better than SA here.
(my cricket podcast) https://aewahid.podbean.com

User avatar
jaybro
Posts: 7885
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:36 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: South Africa Watch

Post by jaybro » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:39 pm

I’d be very confident in saying both England & Australia would have done much better than what South Africa have done, that 2nd Test pitch wasn’t a dust bowl, in fact all the pitches have been fair. They just don’t have a good side atm and will only win Tests at home where their fast bowling unit can rip a team apart for a low score, even then their batting is a worry and will likely fall to pieces as well.

They’ve lost their last 5 tests two of which were at home to Sri Lanka
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

User avatar
zimbos_05
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:00 am

Re: South Africa Watch

Post by zimbos_05 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:36 pm

You've got to think that SA just have no idea what their best is or how. No one really stands out to me as being part of a core. A few individual players who can perform when they want to, but as a unit, it is all over the place.

User avatar
jaybro
Posts: 7885
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:36 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: South Africa Watch

Post by jaybro » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:05 am

They're missing their 'banker' in the middle order, all good sides at least one or two. It's no surprise that NZ have shot up the rankings on the back of Williamson, Ross Taylor and even Nicholls now can be counted on for runs, India obviously have Virat & Pujara and Australia have Smith (who almost counts as two players he's that good).

It's no surprise England have struggled of late as Root has declined whilst the other nations all rely on different guys putting their hands up to do the job from innings to innings. Looking at South Africa they had three bankers in their side with Amla, Kallis & AB all in the one side, but Kallis retired then AB and now Amla so they're left with Faf, who to be honest isn't in the same calibre and can't be relied on for runs when the rest fail.

Faf is a great player and a really good leader (although in this series he's been average in both areas) but the side needs that one guy at least, who can average 55-60 in Tests. Looking at their side they have a pretty good opening partnership in Markram & Elgar despite the recent dip in form for Aiden, in comparison to the other opening partnerships around the world I'd say that's a good one. But their middle order is pathetic, they haven't been able to replace Kallis, Hash or AB at all, De Bruyn looks a decent player but he can't make runs, Bavuma is a quota player and Hamza is still unproven.

They have a lot of the key ingredients to a good side, as I said they have a good opening partnership, a good captain and a really good pace attack, but they're lacking that banker in the middle order and some leadership.
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

User avatar
CrimsonAvenger
Posts: 8286
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:57 am
Supports: Mountaineers
Location: India

Re: South Africa Watch

Post by CrimsonAvenger » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:36 am

Sad state for SA, but hope they build from here with the inexperienced squad getting the exposure from here on. Only Maharaj looked like he belonged in the league (even with the bat), toiling away despite the toss disadvantage for him, and Rabada and Elgar looked good in patches. Batting a massive letdown.

cricket_22001
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:20 pm

Re: South Africa Watch

Post by cricket_22001 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:19 am

Will be interesting to see what the fallout is. This is a tour where Faf looks as though he's lost the dressing room. And it seems to be an unhappy dressing room. I'm trying not to read too much about the Rabada/de Kock incident in the 2nd test but it wasn't a good look.
The morale reminded me of the 12/13 Aussie tour of India which was the death knell for Micky Arthur.
They probably won't want to change things too much given there's a big home series against the Poms.

Kriterion_BD
Posts: 4236
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: South Africa Watch

Post by Kriterion_BD » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:09 am

jaybro wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:05 am
They're missing their 'banker' in the middle order, all good sides at least one or two. It's no surprise that NZ have shot up the rankings on the back of Williamson, Ross Taylor and even Nicholls now can be counted on for runs, India obviously have Virat & Pujara and Australia have Smith (who almost counts as two players he's that good).

It's no surprise England have struggled of late as Root has declined whilst the other nations all rely on different guys putting their hands up to do the job from innings to innings. Looking at South Africa they had three bankers in their side with Amla, Kallis & AB all in the one side, but Kallis retired then AB and now Amla so they're left with Faf, who to be honest isn't in the same calibre and can't be relied on for runs when the rest fail.

Faf is a great player and a really good leader (although in this series he's been average in both areas) but the side needs that one guy at least, who can average 55-60 in Tests. Looking at their side they have a pretty good opening partnership in Markram & Elgar despite the recent dip in form for Aiden, in comparison to the other opening partnerships around the world I'd say that's a good one. But their middle order is pathetic, they haven't been able to replace Kallis, Hash or AB at all, De Bruyn looks a decent player but he can't make runs, Bavuma is a quota player and Hamza is still unproven.

They have a lot of the key ingredients to a good side, as I said they have a good opening partnership, a good captain and a really good pace attack, but they're lacking that banker in the middle order and some leadership.
Amla is not in the same class as Kallis and AB, IMHO. A very good player but I get the feeling he was a home track bully. A South African Mahela Jayawardene (also a fine player, but not in the class of a Sangakkara or Dravid).
(my cricket podcast) https://aewahid.podbean.com

User avatar
jaybro
Posts: 7885
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:36 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: South Africa Watch

Post by jaybro » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:32 am

Mate look at his record he was class

Find it funny how you under rate good players like Root & Amla yet you’ll put Mushy up with Kohli etc
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

User avatar
jaybro
Posts: 7885
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:36 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: South Africa Watch

Post by jaybro » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:55 pm

South Africa have picked 6 uncapped players in their squad for their Test series v England
South Africa have named six uncapped players in their squad for the first two Tests against England, the first of which begins on Boxing Day. Fast bowlers Beuran Hendricks and Dane Paterson, opening batsman Pieter Malan, allrounder Dwaine Pretorius, wicketkeeper-batsman Rudi Second and middle-order batsman Rassie van der Dussen are all in line for a debut.

Aidem Markram has also been named in the squad after he had fractured his wrist while on tour on India and hasn't played since, but Lungi Ngidi, who suffered a Grade 1 hamstring tear ahead of the Mzansi Super League (MSL) playoff, was not considered. The squad includes only a single specialist spinner in Keshav Maharaj, with Dane Piedt and Senuran Muthusamy both left out from the party that toured India. Theunis de Bruyn, the No. 3 batsman, was the biggest casualty from the India whitewash and has been dropped while allrounder Andile Phehlukwayo has been recalled.

"The high number of uncapped players coming into the squad is a reflection of our policy to acknowledge players who do well at franchise level and have put their hands up for selection," Linda Zondi, CSA's recently reinstated independent selector, said.

Paterson is the best example of that. He is second on the list of wicket-takers in the 4-Day Franchise Series, with 18 wickets at 21.55. The leading wicket-taker, Malusi Siboto, was not considered while the third-placed bowler, 19-year-old Gerald Coetzee, suffered a hamstring injury at the Mzansi Super League (MSL) and will play in the Under-19 World Cup instead. Paterson's competition is likely to be Hendricks, who has only played in two first-class matches this summer and has taken three wickets at 32.33.

"Paterson has been the second leading wicket-taker in four-day cricket this season, including a seven-wicket haul in an innings, and we want to go into the Test series with a full arsenal of fast bowlers who have always provided one of our traditional strengths. Beuran Hendricks is also part of this strategy and adds variety to the attack as a left-arm swing bowler," Zondi said.

This means South Africa's first-choice attack is likely to be made up of familiar names: Rabada, Philander, Maharaj and the recently-capped Anrich Nortje. Paterson and Hendricks could come into the mix if an all-pace attack is considered, especially at the usually spicy Centurion wicket where the first Test will be played.

South Africa may also consider a seam-bowling allrounder, which is where Pretorius and Phehlukwayo could be in contention. Pretorius has recovered from a broken hand he suffered during the MSL, and is fit for today's final. Phehlukwayo, meanwhile, has been a regular white-ball player for South Africa. He has played just four Tests - two against Bangladesh, one against Zimbabwe and one against India - but scored 156 runs in six innings and took five wickets in his three matches for Dolphins this summer. Allrounder Wiaan Mulder, who made his Test debut against Sri Lanka in February, was not considered because of a back injury.

South Africa's bigger conundrum will be in the batting line-up, where everything from Elgar's opening partner to the middle order is up for debate. Markram has not played any cricket since punching a wall in Pune, but will have a chance to prove his worth in a round of 4-day fixtures starting Thursday. If he doesn't impress, Malan may come into the reckoning. He lies 10th on the list of run-getters, with 199 runs in six innings at an average of 33.10, identical figures to his younger brother Janneman, who has also been overlooked.

At No.3, Zubayr Hamza has been preferred to de Bruyn, who scored 82 runs in five innings in India (one as a concussion substitute) before being dropped. De Bruyn has instead been picked in the South Africa A side that will play England in a warm-up match from Friday, and could make a case for selection during the second half of the Test series. Temba Bavuma will captain the A team, which also includes Reeza Hendricks and Kyle Verreynne, both of whom may consider themselves unlucky to have missed out on the Test squad.

Verreynne sits fourth on the first-class run-charts and Hendricks ninth, but van der Dussen is the batsman the selectors have gone with for the first two Tests.

Van der Dussen was South Africa's second-highest run-scorer during the World Cup where he showed remarkable composure. He also hung around the Test squad for the first match in India before returning home to score 307 runs in three matches for the Lions at an average of 76.75, including one hundred and two fifties. Van der Dussen is currently 10th on the Franchise 4-day charts and third on the averages.

The wicketkeeper position, which has been Quinton de Kock's for most of his career, is also in competition. Second, who was included in the squad to tour India but withdrew after an injury, is back in contention. Second has scored 220 runs in four Franchise first-class matches this season at 31.42 and has been included in the squad, leaving no room for Heinrich Klaasen, who made his debut in India.


The A team, meanwhile, will be coached by former Test opener Ashwell Prince, and includes MSL stars such as batsman Pite van Biljon and bowler Nandre Burger. Prince will be assisted by former national assistant coach Malinbongwe Maketa and former Warriors coach Piet Botha.

"The selection of the A side to play England in a three-day tour match is confirmation of our policy to make this team our official South African second XI and it has a good mix of experienced and young players," Zondi said.

Squad: Faf du Plessis (capt), Temba Bavuma, Quinton de Kock, Dean Elgar, Beuran Hendricks, Keshav Maharaj, Pieter Malan, Aiden Markram, Zubayr Hamza, Anrich Nortje, Dane Paterson, Andile Phehlukwayo, Vernon Philander, Dwaine Pretorius, Kagiso Rabada, Rudi Second, Rassie van der Dussen

South Africa A squad: Temba Bavuma, Nandre Burger, Theunis de Bruyn, Reeza Hendricks, Pieter Malan, Andile Phehlukwayo, Dane Piedt, Lutho Sipamla, Glenton Stuurman, Pite van Biljon, Kyle Verreynne
Interesting that Bavuma, Pieter Malan & Phehlukawayo have all been picked for the A game as well, considering Bavuma is playing and he will undoubtedly be picked for the 1st Test, does that mean Malan & Phehlukawayo are also 'pencilled in' for the 1st Test??

Why would these guys be picked for this match and not the other uncapped players Paterson, Hendricks, Pretorius, Second & Rassie??? Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe Bavuma isn't a sure thing?

Interesting to see if they go with the allrounder Pretorius or Phehlukawayo ?? They've shown their willingness to sacrifice the extra batsman for a 5th bowling option, although in recent times their batting looks weak with the retirements of AB, Amla etc

My XI

Elgar
Malan
Markram
Faf
Hamza
Rassie
QDK
Philander
Maharaj
KG
Nortje

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id ... land-tests
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest