Cheating Australians

For discussion of any non-Zimbabwean cricket.
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jaybro
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Re: Cheating Australians

Post by jaybro » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:07 pm

foreignfield wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:43 pm
jaybro wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:24 pm
No harm done FF we’re still friends 🤗🤗🤗
Where do you get all those smilies from :?
iPhone emojis 🤩🤩🤩
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

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jaybro
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Re: Cheating Australians

Post by jaybro » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:40 am

Looks as though the storm has finally passed so I’ll leave my final comments on the matter

I might be in ththe minority here but I didn’t like the press conferences tbh, especially Warner’s! You can’t carry on like he did over there threatening to bash people then get caught cheating and come home and cry about !!!

I’m sorry people may take offence or think I’m out of line, but tough guys don’t cry, especially when they’re caught doing something wrong. It’s just another embarrassing moment for us fans and Australians, the guys really have let us down with their attitude towards sledging and the cheating. I’m just glad CA took control of the situation and made a strong stand, the harsh punishments is the only way us fans keep any dignity.
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

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eugene
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Re: Cheating Australians

Post by eugene » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:33 pm

Will be interesting to see if these punishments stand. The cynic in me says CA only levied such punishments after pressure from sponsors and not so much in an effort to change the culture of Australian cricket.
Neil Johnson, Alistair Campbell, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), Grant Flower, Dave Houghton, Guy Whittall, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Ray Price, Eddo Brandes

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jaybro
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Re: Cheating Australians

Post by jaybro » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:22 pm

eugene wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:33 pm
Will be interesting to see if these punishments stand. The cynic in me says CA only levied such punishments after pressure from sponsors and not so much in an effort to change the culture of Australian cricket.
Bancroft & Smith have both confirmed they won’t contest but we’re yet to hear from Warner, today is the last day to lodge an appeal.

CA were really in a no win situation if they went easy in the trio there would have been uproar and now looking at Eugene’s comments which have been the feeling of many people, they only did it to save face or appease sponsors.

Can’t win
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

cricket_22001
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Re: Cheating Australians

Post by cricket_22001 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:24 pm

I agree Eugene.
And the game continues with any appeal, apparently only Warner. If the appeal gets the sentence reduced, CA can still say "Well we banned them for a year. We can't control the results from the appeal. So we were tough on the players & no one can say otherwise."

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eugene
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Re: Cheating Australians

Post by eugene » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:44 am

jaybro wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:22 pm
eugene wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:33 pm
Will be interesting to see if these punishments stand. The cynic in me says CA only levied such punishments after pressure from sponsors and not so much in an effort to change the culture of Australian cricket.
Bancroft & Smith have both confirmed they won’t contest but we’re yet to hear from Warner, today is the last day to lodge an appeal.

CA were really in a no win situation if they went easy in the trio there would have been uproar and now looking at Eugene’s comments which have been the feeling of many people, they only did it to save face or appease sponsors.

Can’t win
Well, when a board has endorsed a toxic team culture for years it takes more than a one-off incident for me to believe they are really serious about change.
Neil Johnson, Alistair Campbell, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), Grant Flower, Dave Houghton, Guy Whittall, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Ray Price, Eddo Brandes

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jaybro
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Re: Cheating Australians

Post by jaybro » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:09 am

eugene wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:44 am

Well, when a board has endorsed a toxic team culture for years it takes more than a one-off incident for me to believe they are really serious about change.
In what way have they 'endorsed' a toxic culture???

As I said they were and are in a no win situation, everyone was calling for their ( CB, SS & DW ) heads and now they got hit with the big stick the reaction is either 'they got hit too hard' or 'They're just doing this to save face'.

Again I ask what else could they have done???

Again everyone is just taking their chance to lay the boot in, you can't deny CA have dealt with this all pretty well, they were swift in their reactions and didn't let it drag out as they handed out the suspensions quickly.

Remember when Warner punched Root he was dropped for 3 Ashes Test matches and sent to Zimbabwe for A matches to regain his spot. Remembering we were really under pressure going into that series and were struggling for decent batsman. The most important Test Series in the World really and CA dropped one of their best batsman for the first 3 tests for love tap in bar.

On the recent Ashes tour England had 3 incidents of player behaviour in pubs and not one person was sent home.

In comparison look at the English and the way they dealt with the Ben Stokes saga, they named him in the Ashes squad despite the clear video footage of him brutally assaulting two men on a drunken barrage, they still named him in the Ashes squad and tried to weasel their way into getting him to play.

As I said you can't deny CA dealt with this situation well and the punishments were unprecedented and harsh, they are the facts. Claiming the decision was done to only save face is 'hearsay' and really has no substance. Also your remark about it being a one off incident is also false as there have been numerous incidents of CA handing out heavy punishments to players as the above mentioned Warner v Root incident, the SOK incident, Symonds gone fishing incident etc.

Take a swipe at the players they deserve what they get for carrying on, but my opinion CA have done very well in handling this situation and any previous incidents.
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

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jaybro
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Re: Cheating Australians

Post by jaybro » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:10 am

cricket_22001 wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:24 pm
I agree Eugene.
And the game continues with any appeal, apparently only Warner. If the appeal gets the sentence reduced, CA can still say "Well we banned them for a year. We can't control the results from the appeal. So we were tough on the players & no one can say otherwise."
Again hearsay and no substance

What would you have liked CA to do or what should they have done?????
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

cricket_22001
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Re: Cheating Australians

Post by cricket_22001 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:51 pm

Funnily enough Jaybro, I agree with CA's response. They've done well. In fact my posts in this thread called for more severe punishment. But, I suggest we agree with this outcome, albeit with different perspectives. Mine, apparently as with Eugene has a cynical edge.
CA acted quickly. Yes indeed. But not as quick as the ICC who handed down their punishment while Pat Howard & Iain Roy were sent to SA to get the "finer details" of it all. Not hearsay so far. "Sent to SA top get finer details" I,as a cynic, interpret as political speak for "bide some time & let's see what the fallout commercially is". Overnight, after that trainwreck of a press conference held by Smith & Bancroft, Smith & Warner were stripped of their leadership for the rest of the test. Howard & Roy would barely have hit the ground when that penalty was decided. Perhaps there were some skype or facetime conversations? (Speculation!)
Meanwhile, Magellan (the series sponsors) withdraw their support for CA. Qantas & Commonwealth Bank express concern. The commercial rumblings are starting. Not hearsay. And, subsequently, CA hands down its findings.
CA are entitled to get all the details. After all, an early question was "Who's in the leadership group?" Coaches & bowlers( normally in the leadership group) have been cleared. The cynic in me says an early question within CA would have been "Oh shit, how many do we have to discipline?"
I believe CA win on many accounts. In gaining the finer details they have restored the faith of many commercial interests. And I stand by my words "we banned them for a year..... & no one can say otherwise". CA has now the high moral ground. No one can challenge the discipline handed out. No one has done it before for this type of charge. No one can point the finger at us being soft.
Also, CA knows there is due process. Any one charged is entitled to silence, legal representation &, if required, an appeal. It's part of the game of life. Since my last post, Warner has stated he will not appeal, as with Smith & Bancroft. And again I stand by my words " We can't control the results of the appeal(how could they? They would be challenged.) "So we were tough on the players..." & CA wins because if an appeals reduces the sentence, the players come back earlier & on paper Australia has a stronger team.
Also, I am not naive to think there is another aspect being played. Smith & Warner were at the forefront of 2017s pay dispute. Remember? A division between board & players rivaling World Series Cricket. The Bangladesh tour was under threat & the "A" tour to SA was canned. So, they screwed up & now CA is rubbing there hands with glee for retribution. Another win. This of course is speculation.
These are just the ramblings of a crusty old bloke who has followed cricket for 45 years. Please take it for what it is - an opinion. I don't want to debate you but I did want to point out it wasn't all hearsay & there was my version of substance.
It is long considered the Australian cricket captaincy to be the second highest office in the land. Therefore, it is political & as the game has progressed commercially, the politics deepens on many levels. Just an opinion.

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jaybro
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Re: Cheating Australians

Post by jaybro » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:24 pm

Well the icc handed out a pathetic penalty in comparison, I don’t think there is anything wrong with CA waiting until Roy & Sutherland got over there to run a swift investigation. If you’re going to ban someone for 12 months you’d want to know all the facts right??

I’m sorry after about two paragraphs it’s all speculation which again proves my point that CA were in a no win situation. I don’t know how you can twist it around saying they were in a win win situation. They’ve lost sponsorships, the brand is tainted big time, their two best players and leaders are suspended and with not much good cattle coming through the next 12 months will be very tough.

I can’t see how CA have won anything since they can’t even get the respect of the cricketing world for handed down these punishments
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

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