Afghanistan vs Ireland | ODI series 2021

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jaybro
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Re: Afghanistan vs Ireland | ODI series 2021

Post by jaybro »

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:30 am

I mean Afghanistan as good as they are, they were 0-9 in the 2019 world cup, and I think 8 of those games they got thrashed. They should have won against Pakistan I think, but Gulbadin captained like a true dumbass and brought himself into the attack to gift the game away.

In their first 2 world cups, Afghanistan are I think 0-13 against the top 8.

They've got a lot of talent coming up, particularly in the batting and thats what they will need to complement their spinners. But after the solid quicks in Hamid and Dawlat...they seem to only be producing trundlers who bowl at 125 clicks. Their Test seamers are a bit quicker, and seem ok statistically but they've only played like 2 Tests.
I find this ironic coming from a Bangladeshi, the Bangas were the true wipping boys for over a decade and the only reason they surpassed the likes of Zimbabwe and Kenya was due to the African nations self imploding.

Afghanistan constantly beat Zimbabwe and Ireland, and are arguably as good as Bangladesh. As I said the 2019 WC was bad for them, but nothing went their way, they had all the issues regarding the board and the captaincy changes, players getting injured and suspended etc.

Looking at Afghanistan now compared to Bangladesh of 2003 after their disastrous campaign where they couldn't even beat associates such as Kenya or Canada, it's not even up for debate which side was in better shape. Bangladesh were given lots of exposure after that WC as they played against all the big sides and toured England and Australia on more than one occasion. I think Afghanistan will improve even more if given the same amount of exposure.
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Re: Afghanistan vs Ireland | ODI series 2021

Post by Kriterion_BD »

jaybro wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:38 am


I find this ironic coming from a Bangladeshi, the Bangas were the true wipping boys for over a decade and the only reason they surpassed the likes of Zimbabwe and Kenya was due to the African nations self imploding.
They aren't mutually exclusive. Even if what I said is ironic, its still not adding extra wins to Afghanistan's record. Additionally, I'm not understanding how Zimbabwe and Kenya's implosion affects Sri Lanka or the West Indies?
Afghanistan constantly beat Zimbabwe and Ireland, and are arguably as good as Bangladesh. As I said the 2019 WC was bad for them, but nothing went their way, they had all the issues regarding the board and the captaincy changes, players getting injured and suspended etc.
All Asian sides have issues with the board, captaincy, and injuries. Didn't a second string Indian side just beat a full strength Aussie side in Australia a few weeks ago which is something even the Tendulkar, Dravid, Kumble led sides couldn't manage.

It should also be noted that Afghanistan's record vs Bangladesh in World Cups (0-3) is worse than Bangladesh's vs either of India (1-2) or Pakistan (1-1), but we can't say that Bangladesh are arguably as good as India.

Merely beating Ireland and Zimbabwe doesn't mean you can beat any of the top 9 teams on a consistent basis. Call it a "fallacy of proximity" i.e this object looks big because I'm standing right next to it, therefore it must be bigger than something much further away.
Looking at Afghanistan now compared to Bangladesh of 2003 after their disastrous campaign where they couldn't even beat associates such as Kenya or Canada, it's not even up for debate which side was in better shape. Bangladesh were given lots of exposure after that WC as they played against all the big sides and toured England and Australia on more than one occasion. I think Afghanistan will improve even more if given the same amount of exposure.
But Bangladesh's improvement from 2003 to 2007 was much bigger than Afghanistan's from 2015 to 2019, no? So how do we know that Afghanistan will improve faster?

I wouldn't count out the level of exposure Afghanistan and Ireland got in the World Cricket League. That gave regular ODI fixtures for them to develop. Bangladesh only got a handful of games vs Zimbabwe and Kenya from 1997 to 2000. By having a home base in the UAE, the Afghans have also had access to world class training facilities. Admittedly, playing regular Test cricket gave Bangladesh an opportunity that the Afghans haven't had but I wonder which is more beneficial to Associate teams making the initial step up to Test level.

I think its premature to say that Afghanistan are as good as Bangladesh when they haven't beaten us in an ICC event or World Cup yet, and haven't won any series vs Bangladesh. The only thing Afghanistan have achieved ahead of Bangladesh is winning the Under 19 Asia Cup a few years back.
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jaybro
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Re: Afghanistan vs Ireland | ODI series 2021

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You're getting away from the point which is that Afghanistan have proven themselves to be superior to the sides ranked around them such as Zimbabwe and Ireland, by constantly beating them and deserve to at least be given the chance to play the higher ranked sides more frequently.

In comparison to Bangladesh around the same time of their development where they became a Test nation and were afforded that 'chance' Afghanistan are miles ahead of where Bangladesh were! After getting Test status in 1999 Bangladesh were 'lengths behind' Zimbabwe and Kenya and rarely ever beat them, IIRC Bangladesh only won like 3 of their first 70 odd ODIs? Im pretty sure Afghanistan have won over 50% of their ODI matches they've played.

Comparing Afghanistan's 2019 WC campaign to Bangladesh's effort in 2003, neither side won a game, but Afghanistan played against the traditional big 9 Nations (That's right I'm counting BD in that) whilst in 2003 Bangladesh were afforded the chance to play two associates including a team full of amateurs from Canada, yet they still lost every game.

After that 2003 World Cup disaster Bangladesh were rewarded with a tour to Australia and then were able to host Pakistan in the ensuing months, these two series were imo the start of the steady incline for Bangladesh, they were taught some tough lessons in Oz which put them in good shape to compete with Pakistan, where they really performed well in all three tests and really should have won the third IIRC which was the famous Inzy match where he scored a 4th innings ton.

After that series they toured Zimbabwe in early 2004 where again they performed really well and actually won an ODI which broke a long long run of defeats! This was of course the last series for Zimbabwe before the rebellion which put Zimbabwe into free fall and levelled up the playing field between BD and Zim, for the next 10 years The sides were fairly evenly matched with BD slightly better with a couple of away series victories. During this time Bangladesh also started beating Kenya regularly as well, IIRC possibly both a home and away series win, as Kenya also self imploded.

As you can see the difference here is that Bangladesh were afforded the chance to play against the bigger nations which helped improve their skills and performances, before they started beating the sides ranked around them. Once they received the exposure and the teams around them self destructed due to political/ board issues, only then did Bangladesh start to compete and gradually surpass Zim & Kenya.

Afghanistan have already proved on numerous occasions they have surpassed Ireland & Zim, and now deserve to get the chance to play the bigger nations on a regular basis so to further improve their skills.
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Re: Afghanistan vs Ireland | ODI series 2021

Post by Kriterion_BD »

I'm not arguing that Afghanistsan don't deserve more chances against the major sides. Ireland do as well for their past performances (which proves they can produce quality cricketers). I'm just saying that Afghanistan havent won many games in World Cups against top sides and that Rashid Khan hasn't run through too many of the top teams in ODIs.

But I fully support the ODI Super League with 13 teams and a proper system where all teams play an equal number of games against all other sides. Afghanistan and Ireland certainly deserve their places in the league.
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Re: Afghanistan vs Ireland | ODI series 2021

Post by sam_ahm »

First of all 10 team World Cup is a joke. I hope one of the bigger nations from the top 8 fail to qualify this time and then just see how the ICC reacts and changes the rules for the next edition.

Sri Lanka and West Indies are seriously vulnerable.

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