Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

For discussion of any non-Zimbabwean cricket.
Kriterion_BD
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by Kriterion_BD » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:59 am

PSR wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:28 am

Will it be a first time where team scored 500+ in first innings and still lost by an innings?
Probably although cricket has so many crazy records, you can never be sure. England did come pretty close last year in India... scored 400 plus and still lost by an innings. Twice.

The pitch is still survivable. But SL have the X factor with Sandakan as a wrist spinner.

One thing is sure. What was a boring as hell match (for neutrals) will suddenly come to life in the final 4 sessions.
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Kriterion_BD
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by Kriterion_BD » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:01 pm

Precariously poised match (for BD). If BD survives, this will definitely go a long ways to fortifying our mental strength in such situations.

Ghosts of the Mirpur and Wellington Tests could either be excised or just have Chittagong added to the list!
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Kriterion_BD
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by Kriterion_BD » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:10 am

Excellent fightback from the Tiger boys on a placid-but-turning pitch.

Mominul gets to his hundred. First BD player to get twin hundreds in the same Test and also has the best aggregate in a match now. Granted Marais Erasmus gave him 4 freebies cuz his last boundary should have been scored as 4 byes.
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Kriterion_BD
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by Kriterion_BD » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:48 pm

Reasonably satisfying draw in the end. Good knocks from Momin and Liton under a fair bit of pressure. The Robot got a bit excited in the other thread lol but didnt factor in that BD have engineered quite a few draws like this.

I hope the Dhaka pitch is either a sqaure turner or a sporting pitch that will get a result. Mominul needs 99 runs to set another team record for most runs in a Test series, although he already owns the record for 2 match series.
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jaybro
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by jaybro » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:38 am

Bangladesh's Test bowling really is awful, unless the pitch is a 'raging turner' they have so placid.

Guys like Mehidy & Taijul look world beaters at Mirpur but if it ain't turning they're pretty average IMO
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CrimsonAvenger
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by CrimsonAvenger » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:27 am

I was never sold on Taijul. Shakib looks a far better and intelligent bowler than him. Sunzamul has a long way to go. Success against Zim cannot be the benchmark for any of these left arm spinners :).

But Mehidy is definitely better than those needing pitch assistance. He wasn't used at the right times by the skipper in this test in my view. Plus the pitch was an absolute road all the way till day 5. Mehidy is still young and learning though, with lots of talent.

What they are lacking is a quality leg spinner. That would have made things interesting even in this match.

Recently read that Sunil Joshi is the spin bowling consultant for BD. Is that a full time role? When did he join? He has had some eye-catching success with domestic teams in India. Rest of India realized that there was a serious cricket team from Jammu and Kashmir when Joshi coached them into knock out stages of the Ranji trophy a few years back, in his first attempt itself. They even beat the mighty Mumbai team along the way! Then he moved on to Assam and got them to get some really good results. Then he helped Hyderabad get back to their respectable days after the slump they sufferered for over a decade - after producing VVS Laxman. But stragnely, he did not stick with any team for more than a couple of seasons though. He would be invaluable for the young left arm spin brigade of BD.

In fact, Zim should have explored an opportunity to work with him if he was available. Both from training the Chisoros, the Wasakadzas, etc. to training the batsmen to face left arm spin. If I'm not wrong, he holds the record for most wickets for a spinner in the history of Ranji Trophy cricket. Just happened to have his career coincide with the golden era of Kumble and Bhajji, meaning he did not get much of a chance at the national level.

Kriterion_BD
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by Kriterion_BD » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:05 am

jaybro wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:38 am
Bangladesh's Test bowling really is awful, unless the pitch is a 'raging turner' they have so placid.

Guys like Mehidy & Taijul look world beaters at Mirpur but if it ain't turning they're pretty average IMO
Same with most finger spinners I reckon - Ashwin, Jadeja, etc. Makes you really appreciate Maharaj and Lyon because they don't get to bowl on turners and yet have fabulous stats. I've always rated Lyon highly. Bangladesh pitches often neuter spinners. Even Murali and Warne have struggled on occaision, IIRC. Warne once had innings figures of 0-130 or something.

But Sri Lanka are also good players of spin. I think all 4 Asian sides are. Herath averages 50+ in Bangladesh all time and he's one of the best spinners of the past decade.

Miraz and Taijul are still the best spinners we've got and that won't change unless and until we unearth a wrist spinner. The figures don't reflect that Miraz and Taijul had a couple regulation catches put down off their bowling. Fizz had a couple as well.

One could equally well say the South African pace attack look ordinary when they aren't bowling on green pitches with bounce. Steyn, Philander, and Morkel looked distinctly ordinary during the BD tour of 2015.
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Kriterion_BD
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by Kriterion_BD » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:15 am

CrimsonAvenger wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:27 am
I was never sold on Taijul. Shakib looks a far better and intelligent bowler than him. Sunzamul has a long way to go. Success against Zim cannot be the benchmark for any of these left arm spinners :).

But Mehidy is definitely better than those needing pitch assistance. He wasn't used at the right times by the skipper in this test in my view. Plus the pitch was an absolute road all the way till day 5. Mehidy is still young and learning though, with lots of talent.

What they are lacking is a quality leg spinner. That would have made things interesting even in this match.

Recently read that Sunil Joshi is the spin bowling consultant for BD. Is that a full time role? When did he join? He has had some eye-catching success with domestic teams in India. Rest of India realized that there was a serious cricket team from Jammu and Kashmir when Joshi coached them into knock out stages of the Ranji trophy a few years back, in his first attempt itself. They even beat the mighty Mumbai team along the way! Then he moved on to Assam and got them to get some really good results. Then he helped Hyderabad get back to their respectable days after the slump they sufferered for over a decade - after producing VVS Laxman. But stragnely, he did not stick with any team for more than a couple of seasons though. He would be invaluable for the young left arm spin brigade of BD.

In fact, Zim should have explored an opportunity to work with him if he was available. Both from training the Chisoros, the Wasakadzas, etc. to training the batsmen to face left arm spin. If I'm not wrong, he holds the record for most wickets for a spinner in the history of Ranji Trophy cricket. Just happened to have his career coincide with the golden era of Kumble and Bhajji, meaning he did not get much of a chance at the national level.
Looks like someone actually watched the game!

Shakib is in a class of his own. He has fivers in SA and England (I think), and has bowled 65% on dead flat tracks in BD where even Herath averages 50+ as I've pointed out above. And he doesn't even really turn the ball. Just has guile.

But Miraz is a classical spinner. He is still not bowling in the right areas consistently, but he is a wicket taker. I hope one day he surpasses Shakib as a spinner.

Taijul is the perfect foil for an attack that has Shakib and Miraz. He does put good revs on the bowl and tends to be the most accurate of the trio. On a turning pitch he will always be a handful (most spinners will).

Joshi has been the coach for about 6 months I think. We almost got Stuart McGill but I think ended up with Joshi. I'm not sure if its a full time job.
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Kriterion_BD
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by Kriterion_BD » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:11 pm

Jaybro's comments got me thinking about spin in BD. So I looked up the stats this decade (from Jan 2010 onwards). Before that BD were a pretty shit side - Ramnaresh Sarwan once took a fiver for next to no runs against us.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

Interestingly some spinners have done very well in BD, others not so much. Perhaps an indication of flat vs spinning pitches. Here are the averages of spinners in BD since 2010.

Miraz - 23.53
Shakib - 31.54
Taijul - 33.06
Gazi - 42.70
Razzak - 64.50 ( :lol: )

Lyon - 14.31 (!!!)
Ashwin - 19.00
Moeen - 22.90
Swann - 25.25
Yasir - 34.00
Harbhajan - 39.60
Herath - 40.87
Perera - 42.83
O'Keefe - 64.00

Its interesting to note that Lyon and Moeen bowled on raging turners, but so did O'Keefe who's 12-fer in Pune wrecked India. Herath and Perera have only bowled on flat tracks, but both are highly rated spinners. Miraz has bowled 4 of his 5 matches on dustbowls, but Shakib has bowled 75% of the time on absoloute highways.

___________________________________________________

When we look at pacers we have the following:

Mustafiz - 29.20

Stokes - 10.09
Wagner - 16.57
Steyn - 18.00
P Cummins - 29.00
Broad - 39.87
Boult - 58.66
Morkel - 97.00

So Ben Stokes and Neil Wagner look like legends and Trent Boult and Morne Morkel look like club level seamers. Thus, one or two innings on a flat or minefield wicket shouldn't be cited out of context unless it fits a wider pattern across a statistically significant sample size and in relation to a few other bowlers for comparison.
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cricket_22001
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by cricket_22001 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:57 am

An interesting stat about Sunil Joshi is his last series in India was against Zimbabwe. He returned figures of 6-406 @ 67.66. Although India won 1-0, this was the series of Andy Flower's epic 232 not out to help draw the second test. Zimbabwe's batting held its own overall but the bowling was inadequate. His last test was Bangladesh's first where he took 8 wickets, but you could say Zimbabwe ended his career. Maybe.
I know this makes me sound like a smarty pants but Joshi sits 3rd on the list of Ranji Trophy wicket takers with 479. Rajinder Goel (a contemporary of Bedi, Chandrasekhar, Prasanna & Venkat) heads the list with 642 wickets, followed by Venkat with 530. Goel never played a test.
Joshi was also a useful batsman with 4 FC centuries & over 5000 runs & a test average of 20 with a high of 92- against Bangladesh.

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