Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

For discussion of any non-Zimbabwean cricket.
sloandog
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by sloandog » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:19 pm

Get rid of Rovman amd add Pooran and that would be my side. You've got depth with the ball as well in Thomas and Joseph in the wings. The West Indies really do just need to click. They have more talent in this batch of players than they have in a very long time and people realise it
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jaybro
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by jaybro » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:08 am

That team could beat anyone anywhere, sure they probably won’t be consistent enough to be ranked No.1 but I think that’s a dangerous side.

Being ranked 9th you’re ranking them below Sri Lanka and Bangladesh presumably ? I disagree with that
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

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jaybro
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by jaybro » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:09 am

sloandog wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:19 pm
Get rid of Rovman amd add Pooran and that would be my side. You've got depth with the ball as well in Thomas and Joseph in the wings. The West Indies really do just need to click. They have more talent in this batch of players than they have in a very long time and people realise it
Might be a bit skinny on bowling
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

Kriterion_BD
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by Kriterion_BD » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:42 am

sloandog wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:19 pm
They have more talent in this batch of players than they have in a very long time and people realise it
I think the WI Test side has considerable more talent. Hetmyer to me is the closest thing to Lara since Lara. Left handed batsmen who really likes to go at the bowlers. The seam attack is world class with Gabriel and Roach (Holder, Joseph, Paul are more than decent as 3rd seamers). Hope and Chase are decent batters.

In ODIs though, Hetmyer and Hope are really the only decent bats. And thats assuming Hope doesn't revert back to his snail paced batting after these tours to the subcontinent. A 45 average is decent, but an ODI batsman needs to have a strike rate of 80 at bear minimum and ideally of 85+.

In T20s the WI will always be a top side or capable of winning a T20 world cup on the back of power hitting alone.

The upcoming Test and ODI leagues will help answer a lot of questions.
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jaybro
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by jaybro » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:39 am

I strongly disagree the Windies are a better Test side, purely for the fact they don’t have the batsman to bat long consistently. Sure Hope did well at Edgbaston and looks like he’ll work it out one day and Kraigg Braithwaite has a decent record but overall they don’t have the batsman to win tests consistently.

Hetmyer will be a t20 merchant soon enough like the rest of the superstars from the Caribbean, I can’t see him playing 50 Tests.
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

Kriterion_BD
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by Kriterion_BD » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:21 pm

jaybro wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:39 am
I strongly disagree the Windies are a better Test side, purely for the fact they don’t have the batsman to bat long consistently. Sure Hope did well at Edgbaston and looks like he’ll work it out one day and Kraigg Braithwaite has a decent record but overall they don’t have the batsman to win tests consistently.
See this is where I am not sure what data set you and sloandog are going off. Sloan, being based in England, perhaps he's seen some of the Windian blokes in County cricket or the Natwest T20, but T20 is a risky format to judge ODI ability apart from big hitting or death bowling capability.

The current Windies side has won Tests in England (granted everyone wins a Test in England), and in the UAE (everyone seems to be winning a Test there too now). But thats still an improvement in the Windies Test fortunes from 2000-2015 when I don't think they had won a single away Test. So from 0 in 15 years, they're now at 2 in the last 3. Small but definite improvement. The bowling attack is also significantly better with Gabriel, Roach, Holder, Joseph, Paul as opposed to Edwards, Taylor, Rampaul, etc. The batting is certainly weaker from the Chanderpaul, Lara, Sarwan days but even those 3 barely tasted any Test victories.

In ODIs however, the WIndies play a large number of games every year home and away, and they haven't won an ODI series since 2014. To put it into perspective, even Zimbabwe have won an ODI series in the past year against a major side (albeit Sri Lanka are reduced to near minnow levels of ineptitude on the field these days). The WI have lost 3 times as many ODIs as they have won. Thats with Hope, Hetmyer, Evin Lewis, and other players. The only players who are up to the mark in ODIs so far are Hetmyer, Hope, and Holder. maybe Joseph too but even Hope is a stretch with a career strike rate of 70. That strike rate won't win you many games.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a strong WI team as cricket needs it and historical tradition begs for it.
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sloandog
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by sloandog » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:42 pm

What's your issue with Hope's strike rate? His 146* came at a strike rate of 101 and his 108* was a lone hand in an otherwise terrible batting performance on a tricky surface up front. I think you're being a little narrow minded in putting so much emphasis on strike rates, especially considering Bangladesh's three best batters have strike rates of 78, 81 and 77 over a 12 year career...
Hope's provided some stability up top for the first time in years, finally, and he's carrying his bat to boot
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Kriterion_BD
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by Kriterion_BD » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:21 pm

sloandog wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:42 pm
What's your issue with Hope's strike rate? His 146* came at a strike rate of 101 and his 108* was a lone hand in an otherwise terrible batting performance on a tricky surface up front. I think you're being a little narrow minded in putting so much emphasis on strike rates, especially considering Bangladesh's three best batters have strike rates of 78, 81 and 77 over a 12 year career...
Hope's provided some stability up top for the first time in years, finally, and he's carrying his bat to boot
That’s precisely my point. Bangladesh has 3 guys with 80 strike rates and are ranked 7th, well behind 6th place Australia. How are WI with 1 guy at 80+ and one at 70 going to be world beaters? Especially when the historical record reads to the contrary.

The other thing is statistically significant contexts. For example Tamim Iqbal has a career average of 37. But he’s a much better player than that because the past 4 years he’s averaging 60 plus behind only Kohli, Root, and Rohit. Even Tamim’s strike rate in this period of around 79-80 is too low for the current era but he’s playing the role
Or an anchor and with a 60 average it’s not my
Place to argue. In the same period Mushfiq has a strike rate touching 90. This over a 50 game sample size, not just a series or two.

Shai Hope has played brilliantly in the last two series. But it’s only an 8 game stretch. Chamu Chibabha had a similar stretch of good scores early in 2015.

As an aside, this should also put into perspective Baba Azam’s 50 plus average. Yes it’s pretty good, but Mushfiqur Rahim has a similar average at higher strike rate.

Also strike rates are absolutely important in ODIs. A batter who can rotate the strike effectively and get timely boundaries (Kohli is the epitome) without playing in the air is essential to a team consistently getting competitive totals.
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sloandog
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by sloandog » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:58 am

When in doubt, listen to Oasis chaps....

Kriterion_BD
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Re: Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

Post by Kriterion_BD » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:19 pm

What a change from just a change in format. After being throughly dominated in both traditional formats, the Windies are excelling in T20s.
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