Bangladesh Pace Attack

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jaybro
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Re: Bangladesh Pace Attack

Post by jaybro » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:39 pm

Yes look bowling well miss chances are things you don't see on a scorecard but looking at the cold hard stats it's hard to say the Bangladeshi bowlers have out bowled anyone

Boult has 13 pegs @21, although he has gone at 4 an over

Southee has been average with 7 @40 and I think it's clear to see Tim is starting to slow down, the World Cup will be interesting to see how he goes if he plays much at all.

The best of the Bangas is Jayed (as I predicted) with 3 wickets @65, had a few chances dropped the poor bugger but still bowled plenty of dross

The rest have been shit house

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... ype=series

Granted the Kiwi batting lineup has been really good but that's what you get when you go overseas you'll bowl to batsman in conditions they are suited to and like, same as when Zimbabwe spinners tour Bangladesh.

Also remember the Kiwi guys have come across a red hot Tamin Iqbal, he's been top shelf this series, he's the reason their economy rates are so high.

Yes if Shakib & Mushy were there the batting would have been much stronger and you could possibly have played an extra seamer or batsman with the spin of Shakib (You guys are fucked when he retires btw) but there are still so many glaring issues that still remain, and to your credit you've identified them.

Catching - might be the worst in world

Batting - Mominul can't buy a run out of the sub-continent, for a guy who's done so well at home he should be doing much better. Liton Das is a guy who I really like but he needs to be dropped, so many failures now he can't find the middle of the bat.

Bowling - Both seam and spin the BD guys can't find away to be effective unless it's a dust bowl, until they can they'll continue to get flogged overseas.

Losing this Test is very embarrassing IMO they only had to last three days and lost it in just over 2 really.
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

Kriterion_BD
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Re: Bangladesh Pace Attack

Post by Kriterion_BD » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:24 pm

jaybro wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:39 pm
Yes look bowling well miss chances are things you don't see on a scorecard but looking at the cold hard stats it's hard to say the Bangladeshi bowlers have out bowled anyone
Well I can only hope that potential will bear fruit on subsequent tours outside the subcontinent. Looking at the FTP, that will be a while from now. We won't be playing Tests outside Asia until 2022 with tours to NZ, SA, and WI coming up 3 years from now.

Boult has 13 pegs @21, although he has gone at 4 an over

Southee has been average with 7 @40 and I think it's clear to see Tim is starting to slow down, the World Cup will be interesting to see how he goes if he plays much at all.
Southee just took 13 wickets @ 17 vs Sri Lanka, so he's not slowing down. Just a bad series where he hasn't been able to get anything from the pitch. But again, if a world class guy with over 200 wickets isn't able to utilize his own conditions, we can cut the BD pacers some slack, regardless of the numbers.
The best of the Bangas is Jayed (as I predicted) with 3 wickets @65, had a few chances dropped the poor bugger but still bowled plenty of dross
That was a good prediction. I didn't really rate Jayed given his lack of height and pace, but his ability to move the ball both ways has been impressive. He could be our version of Bhuvenshwar.

The rest have been shit house


Also remember the Kiwi guys have come across a red hot Tamin Iqbal, he's been top shelf this series, he's the reason their economy rates are so high.

Yes if Shakib & Mushy were there the batting would have been much stronger and you could possibly have played an extra seamer or batsman with the spin of Shakib (You guys are fucked when he retires btw) but there are still so many glaring issues that still remain, and to your credit you've identified them.
Once Shakib retires we will need another spinner all rounder. Its tough to fill the shoes of a guy who averages 40 with the bat and 30 with the ball, so if we can get someone who averages 30 with bat and 40 with the ball, we will be lucky. I think Mehidy Miraz can still fill that role as he is still just 21 years old.

Catching - might be the worst in world
Batting - Mominul can't buy a run out of the sub-continent, for a guy who's done so well at home he should be doing much better. Liton Das is a guy who I really like but he needs to be dropped, so many failures now he can't find the middle of the bat.
I am prediciting Mominul to come good in Christchurch. Its difficult when you are a BD test specialist and only play once every 6 months, and that too only get 4 innings without any serious chance to acclimatize to the conditions. Look at Tamim, scored all of 5 runs in the ODI series, but got accustomed to the bowlers and conditions and is averaging 70 so far in the Test series. Mominul's technique and generaly temperament are too good for him to average less than 30-35 in overseas conditions. He's looked solid except for his dismissals so far.
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jaybro
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Re: Bangladesh Pace Attack

Post by jaybro » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:36 pm

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:24 pm

Southee just took 13 wickets @ 17 vs Sri Lanka, so he's not slowing down. Just a bad series where he hasn't been able to get anything from the pitch. But again, if a world class guy with over 200 wickets isn't able to utilize his own conditions, we can cut the BD pacers some slack, regardless of the numbers.

He's been left out of Test and ODI lineups recently, the coaching staff clearly think he's slowing down
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

Kriterion_BD
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Re: Bangladesh Pace Attack

Post by Kriterion_BD » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:14 am

jaybro wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:36 pm

He's been left out of Test and ODI lineups recently, the coaching staff clearly think he's slowing down
Southee has never been anything more than a decent ODI bowler. He's very much a red ball bowler and he hasn't missed any Tests unless he's been injured. Remember "cold hard stats" are 13 wickets at under 17 apiece vs SL just a few weeks ago. He's not slowing down, just had an off series so far.

Even Boult, the bulk of his wickets have been tail enders and batsman throwing their wickets away. Wagner is the one who has really bowled NZ into dominance in this series.

But going through the scorecard and commentary now:

Taylor dropped on 20, twice, off Jayed's bowling. Goes on to score 180 more runs. Ebadat had Latham similarly dropped on 0, and he went on to score another 161 runs. Thats a decent effort for a pair of quicks who had 5 combined Test caps going into the match. By comparison, Tendai Chatara with all his lack of Test matches has 9 caps.
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jaybro
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Re: Bangladesh Pace Attack

Post by jaybro » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:35 am

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:14 am


Southee has never been anything more than a decent ODI bowler. He's very much a red ball bowler and he hasn't missed any Tests unless he's been injured. Remember "cold hard stats" are 13 wickets at under 17 apiece vs SL just a few weeks ago. He's not slowing down, just had an off series so far.

He was left out of the 1st two Tests v Pakistan in the UAE

Also he's been left out of the ODI side against India and Pakistan IIRC

Southee has been a mainstay of the side for what seems like forever, he'd never be left out of such games in years gone by
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

Kriterion_BD
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Re: Bangladesh Pace Attack

Post by Kriterion_BD » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:05 am

jaybro wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:35 am

He was left out of the 1st two Tests v Pakistan in the UAE

Also he's been left out of the ODI side against India and Pakistan IIRC

Southee has been a mainstay of the side for what seems like forever, he'd never be left out of such games in years gone by
I am sure Southee must have been unfit for the UAE Tests. No need to play 3 or 4 seamers on those tracks.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

Southee's Test bowling figures in the past 3 years is better than his overall career averages. Averages 28. Had a resurgence in 2018 in fact. So there is no reason to think his career or bowling is waning. If a laymen like me can figure that, I'm sure NZC's management is even more aware of that. Even his pace has been up...bowling late 130s against BD in this current series.

As an ODI bowler, he's always been average. bowling average of 34 is actually pretty poor given his reputation and overall bowling class. That being said, I am sure he will make the squad for WC 2019.

Bottom line is, Southee is still a top class seam bowler in Test cricket. And he's only 30...he should be at peak form for another 2-3 years.
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sloandog
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Re: Bangladesh Pace Attack

Post by sloandog » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:49 am

Kriterion_BD wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:05 am
Bottom line is, Southee is still a top class seam bowler in Test cricket. And he's only 30...he should be at peak form for another 2-3 years.
Perfectly summed up. I have always said that Southee is very much a red ball bowler; his overall ODI stats are impressive but not on the level of Boult.
In the shorter formats I'd personally rather see the likes of Matt Henry, Locki Ferguson, Adam Milne and Kulklegan (spelling)….LF was averaging 90mph in on of the ODI's and in the T20's Kulklegan hit 155K! New Zealand are oozing talent and I'm going on a tangent, sorry.
Southee is still world class, period.
When in doubt, listen to Oasis chaps....

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jaybro
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Re: Bangladesh Pace Attack

Post by jaybro » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:15 am

Don’t tell me Kriterion tell the coaches/selectors

Definitely left out by choice not injury
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

Kriterion_BD
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Re: Bangladesh Pace Attack

Post by Kriterion_BD » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:09 pm

Southee is bang average in ODIs. He's not terrible. But if Henry or Ferguson or even Milne can do better...but Southee is still a top class Test bowler.

I do think the ODI game has now evolved to a point where bowler's economy rates should be the primary determinant of class rather than average. Because nowadays ODIs are all about scoring 300 and chasing 300 in order to win.

Its weird though that Milne has disappeared.
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jaybro
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Re: Bangladesh Pace Attack

Post by jaybro » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:10 pm

Whether or not you rate him in ODI cricket is irrelevant in this case, the NZ selectors/coaching staff have started leaving him out of sides, which even as little as 6 months ago would seem inconceivable.

You’re very good at finding little points to argue about to intentionally or unintentionally (I’m not sure) defer from the main subject.
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

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