India at home, Can anyone Beat them??

For discussion of any non-Zimbabwean cricket.
User avatar
jaybro
Posts: 7606
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:36 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

India at home, Can anyone Beat them??

Post by jaybro » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:23 pm

India have now won 11 Test series at home in a row, a new record. I'd say they're at the peak of their powers now as well and could probably beat England & South Africa away after beating Australia and the Windies away in recent times. But the question I'm asking is can anyone beat them in their own back yard??

Australia beat them in 2004 which was labelled the 'final frontier' by Steve Waugh, since then England have beaten them once as well but I can't remember anyone else doing so?? Looking at the current Test Nations around the world right now I really can't see who could possibly beat them in the near future.

Obviously the non sub-continent sides will always struggle although considering Pakistan can't tour India and Sri Lanka are still very much trying to rebuild, either Australia or England would have to be the best chance to do so??

Australia actually ran them very close last time they toured, they won the first Test with Steve O'Keefe taking 12 wickets before they lost the 2nd, drew the 3rd and lost the 4th. I feel that series was a massive missed opportunity for Australia after winning the first Test they had their chances in the 2nd and failed to capitalise on batting first against a Kolhi-less India. It's hard to imagine they'll ever face India with Kohli in such bad form either, I still believe he was fit enough to play the 4th Test, but knew he wasn't mentally in shape to play.

Australia have a really good spinner in Nathan Lyon who's toured India twice and had success, O'Keefe is probably finished now so they'd need to find another spinner to go with Garry, Jon Holland is average and Ashton Agar has really bottomed out so they'll need to find another spinner before they tour next. Batting wise Steve Smith is a brilliant player of spin, you can lock him in for 100 if India produce the same type of decks they have been of late, finding him help is a concern though as the rest of the Australian batsman struggle to play spin usually.

They also need to find a way for their seamers to be more effective in India, the Indian seamers always seem to find some reverse so surely Cummins, Hazlewood and co. should be able to find the same.

England probably have the bowlers to cause India some headaches but their batting is the big issue, they beat Sri Lanka 3-0 only last year which shows they can play in the sub-continent, but they've really struggled in Tests ever since. If they can get Rashid and Moeen bowling well again they'll have a spin attack who can take wickets plus their seamers will find the reverse better than Australia IMO. Batting is the big issue, they'd need Joe Root and Ben Stokes to have really big series.
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

User avatar
zimbos_05
Posts: 1391
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:00 am

Re: India at home, Can anyone Beat them??

Post by zimbos_05 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:20 am

India are always solid at home because the fields suit them. I wouldn't go so far as saying they are the best though.

That series win in Aus was pretty much a shoe in before it started. Aus were going through all their issues and as the Ashes proved, without Smith they are incredibly weakened. I think most of the teams would have beaten Aus had they played them at that time.

Australia has not really found a spinner and I think if we look across all the non sub-continent teams, there is not really one particular spinner that stands out as deadly. SA had Tahir, but now that he is gone, they too are struggling a bit.

India always do well on their pitches and its no surprise. I think other teams can do well in India, but they just don't prepare well enough to play spin
CA did this https://www.youtube.com/watch?edufilter ... bDepqHm89M in 2015. Clearly not really helped them too much thus far, but I think it also has more to do with the number of genuine spinners being produced.

User avatar
jaybro
Posts: 7606
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:36 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: India at home, Can anyone Beat them??

Post by jaybro » Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:39 am

zimbos_05 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:20 am
India are always solid at home because the fields suit them. I wouldn't go so far as saying they are the best though.

Who is then??
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

User avatar
zimbos_05
Posts: 1391
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:00 am

Re: India at home, Can anyone Beat them??

Post by zimbos_05 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:54 am

At the moment, I would say its a tough call, but England definitely have a bowling attack that is deadly, it seems they just need to find some solidity upfront in their batting.

SA are a shambles. Aus have the Smith factor, and Labuschagne is showing form. Haven't watched much of the others lately. New Zealand were doing well in Sri Lanka. I would say you need to give them each a couple of series before making it a definitive statement.

User avatar
jaybro
Posts: 7606
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:36 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: India at home, Can anyone Beat them??

Post by jaybro » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:20 am

zimbos_05 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:54 am
At the moment, I would say its a tough call, but England definitely have a bowling attack that is deadly, it seems they just need to find some solidity upfront in their batting.

SA are a shambles. Aus have the Smith factor, and Labuschagne is showing form. Haven't watched much of the others lately. New Zealand were doing well in Sri Lanka. I would say you need to give them each a couple of series before making it a definitive statement.
So you're saying England is a better Test Side than India ??
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

User avatar
zimbos_05
Posts: 1391
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:00 am

Re: India at home, Can anyone Beat them??

Post by zimbos_05 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:57 am

I'm saying that, at this moment I don't think we definitively say that India are the best.

User avatar
jaybro
Posts: 7606
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:36 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: India at home, Can anyone Beat them??

Post by jaybro » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:30 am

zimbos_05 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:57 am
I'm saying that, at this moment I don't think we definitively say that India are the best.
I think it's pretty clear India are the Best Test Nation at this point, they've beaten Australia away and the Windies (England couldn't) they're currently flogging South Africa in their 11th straight hoe series win. They won Tests in South Africa and England and I'd be very confident if they played again now India would beat both of them.

That was a very vague statement by the way lol
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

User avatar
zimbos_05
Posts: 1391
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:00 am

Re: India at home, Can anyone Beat them??

Post by zimbos_05 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:18 am

I'm purely looking at it from the start of the test championship. So far, they are 4 for 4 which would suggest they are the best, but some teams have only played 2 and some have played none.

That win against Australia was expected because of the issues going on in Aus cricket and the depleted squad. Do you really think Australia would have been that much poor if they had Smith in that series or did not just change coach and were in a bit of a squad upheaval?

I think they can be beaten at home. I'm not saying they are bad, I'm just saying that I'd like to reserve my judgement a bit more until I have seen them do what they do at home, away and consistently.

User avatar
jaybro
Posts: 7606
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:36 am
Supports: MidWest Rhinos

Re: India at home, Can anyone Beat them??

Post by jaybro » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:21 pm

Looking at that Australia series you have to remember that our bowlers only bowled them out cheaply twice, once on a mine field in the 2nd innings at Perth and once in the 2nd innings where the game was gone.

Yes Smith & Warner might have changed the result, but when you line up the sides next to each other I think India are a better side, and their results in recent times and No.1 ranking justify the claim they are in fact the best side in the world right now.

But back to the original question and actual subject at hand, who could beat India at home in a Test series right now?
1.G.Flower 2.B.Taylor 3.M.Goodwin 4.A.Flower 5.D.Houghton 6.N.Johnson 7.T.Taibu 8.P.Strang 9.H.Streak 10.R.Price 11.H.Olonga 12.A.Campbell

Kriterion_BD
Posts: 4129
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:41 am

Re: India at home, Can anyone Beat them??

Post by Kriterion_BD » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:33 pm

jaybro wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:30 am
zimbos_05 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:57 am
I'm saying that, at this moment I don't think we definitively say that India are the best.
I think it's pretty clear India are the Best Test Nation at this point, they've beaten Australia away and the Windies (England couldn't) they're currently flogging South Africa in their 11th straight hoe series win. They won Tests in South Africa and England and I'd be very confident if they played again now India would beat both of them.

That was a very vague statement by the way lol
Steve Smith could have single handedly saved that series for Australia. He is half the Aussie team.

Having said that, India are surely the best side in the world. Im still not sure theyd win a series in England (lost 4-1 just 15 months ago) or Australia with a full strength side. Heck they might not even win in NZ.

But India are pretty much invincible at home. More so than any other team.
(my cricket podcast) https://aewahid.podbean.com

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest