2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

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ZIMFAN
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by ZIMFAN »

Enjoying the discourse. Refreshing.

Terryalderman
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by Terryalderman »

We used to get flogged back in the 90s as well. If Andy, Grant and Alistair failed you still had mediocre guys in the team like Viljoen, Rennie, Wishart, Ferreira, Gripper etc who were only mid 20 test averages. It’s as though everyone just remembers the 99 World Cup and expects Zim to be that good all the time. Considering the state of the country and number of cricket players in Zim, I think they still punch above their weight.

farhanhussan
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by farhanhussan »

Terryalderman wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 11:06 am
We used to get flogged back in the 90s as well. If Andy, Grant and Alistair failed you still had mediocre guys in the team like Viljoen, Rennie, Wishart, Ferreira, Gripper etc who were only mid 20 test averages. It’s as though everyone just remembers the 99 World Cup and expects Zim to be that good all the time. Considering the state of the country and number of cricket players in Zim, I think they still punch above their weight.
irony is that the Zim team of that era is still better than this team, things should have evolved in Zim but unfortunatly it has regressed. All those medocre players were better fighter compare to current Zim team.

sloandog
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by sloandog »

farhanhussan wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 11:48 am
Terryalderman wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 11:06 am
We used to get flogged back in the 90s as well. If Andy, Grant and Alistair failed you still had mediocre guys in the team like Viljoen, Rennie, Wishart, Ferreira, Gripper etc who were only mid 20 test averages. It’s as though everyone just remembers the 99 World Cup and expects Zim to be that good all the time. Considering the state of the country and number of cricket players in Zim, I think they still punch above their weight.
irony is that the Zim team of that era is still better than this team, things should have evolved in Zim but unfortunatly it has regressed. All those medocre players were better fighter compare to current Zim team.
Ya those men mentioned had a grit which we don't seem to have at the moment. Give the lads time though, they'll come good

Kriterion_BD
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by Kriterion_BD »

secretzimbo wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:03 am
The U19s coming up are the best for a decade or so and people involved in the next batch are just as confident in them too.
The only player we've really seen enough of to make any sort of call is Wes, and its still quite early in his career. Granted, some players develop their game very late in their careers (eg Sean Williams who was a mediocre player until about 5 years ago). But I think the bar set by Taylor/Williams/Ervine/Raza is so high, I personally can't see Wesley/Shumba/Myers/Bawa (the new Big 4) matching that level of performance. Williams averages 42 in Tests.

The issue with the current Big 4 has been that they lack synergy...they never score runs together in the same innings. One guy will score a hundred, but the other 3 will combine for 50 runs or less.

The new Big 4 are not only going to have to match the 35+ averages that the current group has in both formats of the game, but they will also have to find a way to perform consistently.

A batting lineup only needs 3-4 class players to be competitive...but they have to be consistent and work well as a unit.
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zimbos_05
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by zimbos_05 »

secretzimbo wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:03 am

But in 6 months we’ve seen ZC put on (short) domestic comps in all three formats, late into the autumn, at great cost despite not being required to due to covid. Would Makoni & Mukuhlani have done that a year or two back if they had the excuse?
We’ve seen overseas zimbos invited en mass to return for the Logan cup. Only a couple came over but it’s a start and it’s a good idea.
We’ve seen the 5th franchise reintroduced - again at cost - to ensure there are chances for the U19’s
We’ve seen schools having their facilities fixed for the first time in several years and speaking to some teachers (I used to be one!), Hammy is getting the praise for personally driving it.
There has been governance changes - non cricketing people (some of them who have been there for years) have been removed from some of the regional boards and replaced with people who finally appear to give a fuck.
ZC have put in place formal communication channels with schools and clubs. A professionalisation of things.
The NPL again at great cost and with little revenue - it’s a good cricketing idea and hopefully we see it grow. Club cricket was pretty much the best thing about Zim cricket 20+ years ago.
All of these things when jumbled like this and phrased in a certain manner does make it seem as if things are definitely being done and moving forward. It's refreshing in a way. You'll have to excuse my skepticism as I've seen this sort of happen quite often in the past only for issues to still persists or get worse.

One of the reasons for that is that even with all this good work you describe, I can't help but feel a level of mismanagement still occurs, and to a degree which is detrimental to ZC as a team. The example are for me Chamu and Wellington in the sides. The handling of the likes of Murray. The rhetoric that players have to pick ZC or their livelihoods. The response to the Streak situation by ZC. The lack of transparency and openness on all issues, structures, and governance systems.

To me, results on the field are a major marker of the governance and leadership, and unfortunately I can't speak too highly of it for now.
Terryalderman wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 11:06 am
We used to get flogged back in the 90s as well. If Andy, Grant and Alistair failed you still had mediocre guys in the team like Viljoen, Rennie, Wishart, Ferreira, Gripper etc who were only mid 20 test averages. It’s as though everyone just remembers the 99 World Cup and expects Zim to be that good all the time. Considering the state of the country and number of cricket players in Zim, I think they still punch above their weight.
As mentioned before, a big factor with those players was their grit and determination. They put in the hard yards in club cricket and made efforts to arrange that and keep it running. They didn't rely on ZC at the time to organise games or programmes. They trained hard and worked harder. They had a willingness to learn and be better. So i do remember that we used to get beaten, but you could always see progress, which resulted in us winning more matches as we developed.

Zimco
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by Zimco »

The loss of Murray is disappointing isn't it? ZC got outbid by an accounting firm :lol: :lol:

TapsC2
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by TapsC2 »

Zimco wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 12:39 am
The loss of Murray is disappointing isn't it? ZC got outbid by an accounting firm :lol: :lol:
This will always be a weird one to me. It wouldn’t have taken Murray one month in Zim to walk into this team. Instead he has an accounting job. The PJ situation is very understandable but this one can’t be blamed on ZC alone in my eyes. You have to want it. If Evans and Chivanga had to play the domestic competition then Murray had to as well. It only makes sense.

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zimbos_05
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by zimbos_05 »

TapsC2 wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 4:29 am

This will always be a weird one to me. It wouldn’t have taken Murray one month in Zim to walk into this team. Instead he has an accounting job. The PJ situation is very understandable but this one can’t be blamed on ZC alone in my eyes. You have to want it. If Evans and Chivanga had to play the domestic competition then Murray had to as well. It only makes sense.
Warner made his international debut without any First Class cricket. I'm not saying Murray should walk in to the side, but there should not be a blanket rule. This just removes so many options and possibilities. Murray is one of those where the rules are a bit different, or at least should be.
When you are looking for gold, all of a sudden you get a diamond, what do you do? still keep looking for gold or grab that diamond and place it in your treasure?

TapsC2
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Re: 2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Post by TapsC2 »

zimbos_05 wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 7:55 am
TapsC2 wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 4:29 am

This will always be a weird one to me. It wouldn’t have taken Murray one month in Zim to walk into this team. Instead he has an accounting job. The PJ situation is very understandable but this one can’t be blamed on ZC alone in my eyes. You have to want it. If Evans and Chivanga had to play the domestic competition then Murray had to as well. It only makes sense.
Warner made his international debut without any First Class cricket. I'm not saying Murray should walk in to the side, but there should not be a blanket rule. This just removes so many options and possibilities. Murray is one of those where the rules are a bit different, or at least should be.
When you are looking for gold, all of a sudden you get a diamond, what do you do? still keep looking for gold or grab that diamond and place it in your treasure?


I get you. Maybe for Muyeye yes but for me Murray is no different from Malcolm Lake. Talent is there but is it walk straight into the team talent based on Uni cricket?

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