Post Big 4 era

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jaybro
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Post Big 4 era

Post by jaybro »

With the news BT has retired, Willy & Raza close to pulling the pin as well, it’s clear that the ‘Post Big 4 era’ is not too far away. BT, Willo & Ervine are the last players from that special group of U19 players (2002-2006) that have served Zimbabwe for the best part of two decades.

What does the future look like? The U19’s have been bitterly disappointing ever since, and the Zimbabwe cricket pathways system has only produced two international hundreds since then (Regis Test ton v BD in 2014 & Mire ODI ton v SL in 2017). That’s a very concerning stat!

Luckily the last edition of the U19s did produce four really good youngsters, who will be relied on to take up the baton from the Big 4. Whilst Wes Madhevere & Milton Shumba are straight swaps for Raza & Willy as middle order batsman with finger spin bowling. Myers & Marumani will have to replace the runs of BT & Ervine, which will be difficult at such a young age imo.

Of course there will be a new ‘senior group’ of players in Regis, Burl, Tari & possibly PJ Moor, but none of those guys look like they’ll be able to average over 30 in any format. Burl & Tari have been the biggest disappointments, they’ve never been able to kick on and become regular players for the National Side, despite debuting 5 years ago they’re still searching for the right formula on the international stage.

Even with those 8 players, there’s not enough quality or quantity to consistently score enough runs to replace the Big 4. ZC really needs to attempt to bring some guys back from overseas, obviously Tawanda Muyeye is the prized target, but he’s only just started off his quest to play for England.

But there are other players who have tried their luck abroad and don’t seem to be getting anywhere, the likes of Murray, Welch,
Jayden Schadendorf and yes even Eddie Byrom should be approached to see if they’d be interested in returning, because without them I fear for Zimbabwe in he Post Big 4 era
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ZIMDOGGY
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Re: Post Big 4 era

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

The way out is the younger players + enticing talented overseas based players back.
It’s why Jarvis has been appointed as a scout, Im sure of it.
That’s also the rumours in Zim too, which I heard after I first raised that idea.

They will throw money at a talented player like Melton, Welch or Higgins who is county level but no danger of playing for England anytime soon.
Even someone like Hilton Cartwright who would be eligible again soon you’d think.
They are going to have post big 4 money and when their backs are to the wall, some poor bastard internally will have their jobs lost to get immediate band aid Solutions. It’s the only way forward.
Cricinfo profile of the 'James Bond' of cricket:

FULL NAME: Angus James Mackay
BORN: 13 June 1967, Harare
KNOWN AS: Gus Mackay

'The' Gus Mackay.

Hero.
Sportsman.
Artist.
Player.

**
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slcricfan1
Posts: 505
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Location: Sydney

Re: Post Big 4 era

Post by slcricfan1 »

jaybro wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:39 am
With the news BT has retired, Willy & Raza close to pulling the pin as well, it’s clear that the ‘Post Big 4 era’ is not too far away. BT, Willo & Ervine are the last players from that special group of U19 players (2002-2006) that have served Zimbabwe for the best part of two decades.

What does the future look like? The U19’s have been bitterly disappointing ever since, and the Zimbabwe cricket pathways system has only produced two international hundreds since then (Regis Test ton v BD in 2014 & Mire ODI ton v SL in 2017). That’s a very concerning stat!

Luckily the last edition of the U19s did produce four really good youngsters, who will be relied on to take up the baton from the Big 4. Whilst Wes Madhevere & Milton Shumba are straight swaps for Raza & Willy as middle order batsman with finger spin bowling. Myers & Marumani will have to replace the runs of BT & Ervine, which will be difficult at such a young age imo.

Of course there will be a new ‘senior group’ of players in Regis, Burl, Tari & possibly PJ Moor, but none of those guys look like they’ll be able to average over 30 in any format. Burl & Tari have been the biggest disappointments, they’ve never been able to kick on and become regular players for the National Side, despite debuting 5 years ago they’re still searching for the right formula on the international stage.

Even with those 8 players, there’s not enough quality or quantity to consistently score enough runs to replace the Big 4. ZC really needs to attempt to bring some guys back from overseas, obviously Tawanda Muyeye is the prized target, but he’s only just started off his quest to play for England.

But there are other players who have tried their luck abroad and don’t seem to be getting anywhere, the likes of Murray, Welch,
Jayden Schadendorf and yes even Eddie Byrom should be approached to see if they’d be interested in returning, because without them I fear for Zimbabwe in he Post Big 4 era
burl and regis are just starting tto kick on. I reckon theyll do decent enough. Idk abt the other 2 though.

ZIMDOGGY
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Re: Post Big 4 era

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

slcricfan1 wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:15 am
jaybro wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:39 am
With the news BT has retired, Willy & Raza close to pulling the pin as well, it’s clear that the ‘Post Big 4 era’ is not too far away. BT, Willo & Ervine are the last players from that special group of U19 players (2002-2006) that have served Zimbabwe for the best part of two decades.

What does the future look like? The U19’s have been bitterly disappointing ever since, and the Zimbabwe cricket pathways system has only produced two international hundreds since then (Regis Test ton v BD in 2014 & Mire ODI ton v SL in 2017). That’s a very concerning stat!

Luckily the last edition of the U19s did produce four really good youngsters, who will be relied on to take up the baton from the Big 4. Whilst Wes Madhevere & Milton Shumba are straight swaps for Raza & Willy as middle order batsman with finger spin bowling. Myers & Marumani will have to replace the runs of BT & Ervine, which will be difficult at such a young age imo.

Of course there will be a new ‘senior group’ of players in Regis, Burl, Tari & possibly PJ Moor, but none of those guys look like they’ll be able to average over 30 in any format. Burl & Tari have been the biggest disappointments, they’ve never been able to kick on and become regular players for the National Side, despite debuting 5 years ago they’re still searching for the right formula on the international stage.

Even with those 8 players, there’s not enough quality or quantity to consistently score enough runs to replace the Big 4. ZC really needs to attempt to bring some guys back from overseas, obviously Tawanda Muyeye is the prized target, but he’s only just started off his quest to play for England.

But there are other players who have tried their luck abroad and don’t seem to be getting anywhere, the likes of Murray, Welch,
Jayden Schadendorf and yes even Eddie Byrom should be approached to see if they’d be interested in returning, because without them I fear for Zimbabwe in he Post Big 4 era
burl and regis are just starting tto kick on. I reckon theyll do decent enough. Idk abt the other 2 though.
How can we really tell?
We haven’t played a top 5 country in so long.
Cricinfo profile of the 'James Bond' of cricket:

FULL NAME: Angus James Mackay
BORN: 13 June 1967, Harare
KNOWN AS: Gus Mackay

'The' Gus Mackay.

Hero.
Sportsman.
Artist.
Player.

**
Q. VUSI SIBANDA, WHERE DO YOU HOP?

A. UNDA DA ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE*

slcricfan1
Posts: 505
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:14 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Post Big 4 era

Post by slcricfan1 »

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:26 am
slcricfan1 wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:15 am
jaybro wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:39 am
With the news BT has retired, Willy & Raza close to pulling the pin as well, it’s clear that the ‘Post Big 4 era’ is not too far away. BT, Willo & Ervine are the last players from that special group of U19 players (2002-2006) that have served Zimbabwe for the best part of two decades.

What does the future look like? The U19’s have been bitterly disappointing ever since, and the Zimbabwe cricket pathways system has only produced two international hundreds since then (Regis Test ton v BD in 2014 & Mire ODI ton v SL in 2017). That’s a very concerning stat!

Luckily the last edition of the U19s did produce four really good youngsters, who will be relied on to take up the baton from the Big 4. Whilst Wes Madhevere & Milton Shumba are straight swaps for Raza & Willy as middle order batsman with finger spin bowling. Myers & Marumani will have to replace the runs of BT & Ervine, which will be difficult at such a young age imo.

Of course there will be a new ‘senior group’ of players in Regis, Burl, Tari & possibly PJ Moor, but none of those guys look like they’ll be able to average over 30 in any format. Burl & Tari have been the biggest disappointments, they’ve never been able to kick on and become regular players for the National Side, despite debuting 5 years ago they’re still searching for the right formula on the international stage.

Even with those 8 players, there’s not enough quality or quantity to consistently score enough runs to replace the Big 4. ZC really needs to attempt to bring some guys back from overseas, obviously Tawanda Muyeye is the prized target, but he’s only just started off his quest to play for England.

But there are other players who have tried their luck abroad and don’t seem to be getting anywhere, the likes of Murray, Welch,
Jayden Schadendorf and yes even Eddie Byrom should be approached to see if they’d be interested in returning, because without them I fear for Zimbabwe in he Post Big 4 era
burl and regis are just starting tto kick on. I reckon theyll do decent enough. Idk abt the other 2 though.
How can we really tell?
We haven’t played a top 5 country in so long.
at this stage it doesnt rlly matter if they can do it against those nations does it lol?

slcricfan1
Posts: 505
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:14 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Post Big 4 era

Post by slcricfan1 »

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:26 am
slcricfan1 wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:15 am
jaybro wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:39 am
With the news BT has retired, Willy & Raza close to pulling the pin as well, it’s clear that the ‘Post Big 4 era’ is not too far away. BT, Willo & Ervine are the last players from that special group of U19 players (2002-2006) that have served Zimbabwe for the best part of two decades.

What does the future look like? The U19’s have been bitterly disappointing ever since, and the Zimbabwe cricket pathways system has only produced two international hundreds since then (Regis Test ton v BD in 2014 & Mire ODI ton v SL in 2017). That’s a very concerning stat!

Luckily the last edition of the U19s did produce four really good youngsters, who will be relied on to take up the baton from the Big 4. Whilst Wes Madhevere & Milton Shumba are straight swaps for Raza & Willy as middle order batsman with finger spin bowling. Myers & Marumani will have to replace the runs of BT & Ervine, which will be difficult at such a young age imo.

Of course there will be a new ‘senior group’ of players in Regis, Burl, Tari & possibly PJ Moor, but none of those guys look like they’ll be able to average over 30 in any format. Burl & Tari have been the biggest disappointments, they’ve never been able to kick on and become regular players for the National Side, despite debuting 5 years ago they’re still searching for the right formula on the international stage.

Even with those 8 players, there’s not enough quality or quantity to consistently score enough runs to replace the Big 4. ZC really needs to attempt to bring some guys back from overseas, obviously Tawanda Muyeye is the prized target, but he’s only just started off his quest to play for England.

But there are other players who have tried their luck abroad and don’t seem to be getting anywhere, the likes of Murray, Welch,
Jayden Schadendorf and yes even Eddie Byrom should be approached to see if they’d be interested in returning, because without them I fear for Zimbabwe in he Post Big 4 era
burl and regis are just starting tto kick on. I reckon theyll do decent enough. Idk abt the other 2 though.
How can we really tell?
We haven’t played a top 5 country in so long.
zim needs to be beating sl/wi/bd first

TapsC2
Posts: 747
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:40 pm

Re: Post Big 4 era

Post by TapsC2 »

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:26 am
slcricfan1 wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:15 am
jaybro wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:39 am
With the news BT has retired, Willy & Raza close to pulling the pin as well, it’s clear that the ‘Post Big 4 era’ is not too far away. BT, Willo & Ervine are the last players from that special group of U19 players (2002-2006) that have served Zimbabwe for the best part of two decades.

What does the future look like? The U19’s have been bitterly disappointing ever since, and the Zimbabwe cricket pathways system has only produced two international hundreds since then (Regis Test ton v BD in 2014 & Mire ODI ton v SL in 2017). That’s a very concerning stat!

Luckily the last edition of the U19s did produce four really good youngsters, who will be relied on to take up the baton from the Big 4. Whilst Wes Madhevere & Milton Shumba are straight swaps for Raza & Willy as middle order batsman with finger spin bowling. Myers & Marumani will have to replace the runs of BT & Ervine, which will be difficult at such a young age imo.

Of course there will be a new ‘senior group’ of players in Regis, Burl, Tari & possibly PJ Moor, but none of those guys look like they’ll be able to average over 30 in any format. Burl & Tari have been the biggest disappointments, they’ve never been able to kick on and become regular players for the National Side, despite debuting 5 years ago they’re still searching for the right formula on the international stage.

Even with those 8 players, there’s not enough quality or quantity to consistently score enough runs to replace the Big 4. ZC really needs to attempt to bring some guys back from overseas, obviously Tawanda Muyeye is the prized target, but he’s only just started off his quest to play for England.

But there are other players who have tried their luck abroad and don’t seem to be getting anywhere, the likes of Murray, Welch,
Jayden Schadendorf and yes even Eddie Byrom should be approached to see if they’d be interested in returning, because without them I fear for Zimbabwe in he Post Big 4 era
burl and regis are just starting tto kick on. I reckon theyll do decent enough. Idk abt the other 2 though.
How can we really tell?
We haven’t played a top 5 country in so long.
Pakistan? Regis averaged 49 in those test matches but the funny thing is he doesn't count. He is turning 34 next week :lol: he can't be part of our long term plans

Googly
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Re: Post Big 4 era

Post by Googly »

A one off post for me in light of recent events.
I'm fairly sure they offered Taylor a pay as you play contract, what I don't know is whether they really expected him to accept it or that was their way of payback for BT's hand in the well documented issues over the years. For a mere jumped up employee cricketer to have earned more than the bosses as a salary must have burned them so bad as well.  Its not how it's done here, the chefs must eat and be seen to be eating, its expected. What goes out the back door is irrelevant.
These guys drip spite and vitriol and it does not dilute with the passing of time.
It's the glue that ensures they remain at the helm and I see their sycophants have weighed in on the matter, as if proof was required. They don't speak unless they're told what to say or if they know their disgraceful comments will ingratiate themselves with their masters.

This would indicate that Williams and Raza were offered something better because they've gone quiet which is bizarre beyond belief, unless, as I said,  old scores are being settled.
In a settled environment Taylor would probably settle for 6k a month and the Chefs would be on less than that, not on their own 15- 20k a month before you get to the all you can eat buffet.

I'd take an educated guess that this Rajput fellow has also convinced them that the youngsters will be more than adequate replacements for the Big 4. Telling someone with no knowledge of cricket whatsoever  exactly what they want to hear guarantees you best friend status, its not rocket science, but shows he doesn't have a jot of integrity.

Shumba had a good innings against Scotland and he's now being touted as the next  international batting sensation here. He actually played well and didn't panic so already he's better than 90% of what we've got.  but he's not the next Shaw, Gill, Jacks etc. He's not going to be consistent. Anyway time will tell, he's in for the duration so the one thing neither he nor Madhevere won't ever have to worry about is batting for a spot.
I see Houghton was fairly complementary as well. Watch that space!
I'm not talking Scotland down by any stretch. They have 130 clubs and a far stronger player base than us. We are way lower down the pecking order than both Ireland and Scotland now, unless I'm watching a different game to anyone else? We are now firmly at mid associate level and the only way is further down. When Williams and Ervine retire I can't think of a team that I'd guarantee a win against. Had Scotland not persevered with 2 overs of unnecessary spin they'd have beaten us comfortably.

Marumani doesn't really know how to tone it down and I will guarantee he's not being told to. They're either  hoping he will come off once in 15 games, which is often good enough for us, or that he will do it once and somehow miraculously become a star from that day onwards. He's got a great eye, but many technical issues and he just doesn't know his game yet, and the international stage is not the place to learn it unless you're a potential whizz kid.   Every batsman at international level has a great eye, it's the very bare minimum that you need, it's one small necessary piece of the jigsaw. Someone needs to enlighten them about this. Why would they keep playing him when the real good one that has a real shot at getting it right (Myers) is not getting the exposure?

I'm not sold on the idea of the seniors sitting out the T20's because they're "meaningless." How long can we get caned in every format before ICC call time on our status? We don't play A games and our domestic stuff is so sub standard that I'm not sure where they would get exposure? And when the seniors play they more often than not don't do much better. Cricket has progressed and we've actually gone backwards. It's glaringly apparent to the entire world.
  The gap is going to get bigger by the year as well.

They need to open with Burl and Myers.
Burl is a slow starter and you win a fair percentage of games if you're only one down or better after 6. The "brains trust" thinks you need to be at 60 plus and wickets don't matter. Maybe that would work in the Indian or England line up.

Basically the young guns are not replacing the Big 4. Another 3 years or so has to pass before everyone  figures  that out. I think shumba, Madhevere and Myers have a lot going for them, but anything beyond being a journeyman half decent pro is not possible in this environment.

Oh our new talent scouts! There are basically about 5 high schools that play anything that vaguely resembles village cricket, they're not going to be busy. That's jobs for the boys who've behaved.

And the flood of sub-continent special needs trolls that are allowed 10 minutes a day on the Internet by their nurses has made most of these threads completely unreadable.

We are in another ten year "rebuilding" phase. Let's hope ICC swallow that line again, they might, they're  as corrupt as our lot, there's a reason for them perpetually turning a blind eye to the nonsense that goes on here.

Zimco
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Re: Post Big 4 era

Post by Zimco »

And hes back! :D

ZIMDOGGY
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Re: Post Big 4 era

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

Googly wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:44 pm
A one off post for me in light of recent events.
I'm fairly sure they offered Taylor a pay as you play contract, what I don't know is whether they really expected him to accept it or that was their way of payback for BT's hand in the well documented issues over the years. For a mere jumped up employee cricketer to have earned more than the bosses as a salary must have burned them so bad as well.  Its not how it's done here, the chefs must eat and be seen to be eating, its expected. What goes out the back door is irrelevant.
These guys drip spite and vitriol and it does not dilute with the passing of time.
It's the glue that ensures they remain at the helm and I see their sycophants have weighed in on the matter, as if proof was required. They don't speak unless they're told what to say or if they know their disgraceful comments will ingratiate themselves with their masters.

This would indicate that Williams and Raza were offered something better because they've gone quiet which is bizarre beyond belief, unless, as I said,  old scores are being settled.
In a settled environment Taylor would probably settle for 6k a month and the Chefs would be on less than that, not on their own 15- 20k a month before you get to the all you can eat buffet.

I'd take an educated guess that this Rajput fellow has also convinced them that the youngsters will be more than adequate replacements for the Big 4. Telling someone with no knowledge of cricket whatsoever  exactly what they want to hear guarantees you best friend status, its not rocket science, but shows he doesn't have a jot of integrity.

Shumba had a good innings against Scotland and he's now being touted as the next  international batting sensation here. He actually played well and didn't panic so already he's better than 90% of what we've got.  but he's not the next Shaw, Gill, Jacks etc. He's not going to be consistent. Anyway time will tell, he's in for the duration so the one thing neither he nor Madhevere won't ever have to worry about is batting for a spot.
I see Houghton was fairly complementary as well. Watch that space!
I'm not talking Scotland down by any stretch. They have 130 clubs and a far stronger player base than us. We are way lower down the pecking order than both Ireland and Scotland now, unless I'm watching a different game to anyone else? We are now firmly at mid associate level and the only way is further down. When Williams and Ervine retire I can't think of a team that I'd guarantee a win against. Had Scotland not persevered with 2 overs of unnecessary spin they'd have beaten us comfortably.

Marumani doesn't really know how to tone it down and I will guarantee he's not being told to. They're either  hoping he will come off once in 15 games, which is often good enough for us, or that he will do it once and somehow miraculously become a star from that day onwards. He's got a great eye, but many technical issues and he just doesn't know his game yet, and the international stage is not the place to learn it unless you're a potential whizz kid.   Every batsman at international level has a great eye, it's the very bare minimum that you need, it's one small necessary piece of the jigsaw. Someone needs to enlighten them about this. Why would they keep playing him when the real good one that has a real shot at getting it right (Myers) is not getting the exposure?

I'm not sold on the idea of the seniors sitting out the T20's because they're "meaningless." How long can we get caned in every format before ICC call time on our status? We don't play A games and our domestic stuff is so sub standard that I'm not sure where they would get exposure? And when the seniors play they more often than not don't do much better. Cricket has progressed and we've actually gone backwards. It's glaringly apparent to the entire world.
  The gap is going to get bigger by the year as well.

They need to open with Burl and Myers.
Burl is a slow starter and you win a fair percentage of games if you're only one down or better after 6. The "brains trust" thinks you need to be at 60 plus and wickets don't matter. Maybe that would work in the Indian or England line up.

Basically the young guns are not replacing the Big 4. Another 3 years or so has to pass before everyone  figures  that out. I think shumba, Madhevere and Myers have a lot going for them, but anything beyond being a journeyman half decent pro is not possible in this environment.

Oh our new talent scouts! There are basically about 5 high schools that play anything that vaguely resembles village cricket, they're not going to be busy. That's jobs for the boys who've behaved.

And the flood of sub-continent special needs trolls that are allowed 10 minutes a day on the Internet by their nurses has made most of these threads completely unreadable.

We are in another ten year "rebuilding" phase. Let's hope ICC swallow that line again, they might, they're  as corrupt as our lot, there's a reason for them perpetually turning a blind eye to the nonsense that goes on here.
Onya googs,
Welcome reading material after the bland or trolling sub continental posters who recently signed up.
Cricinfo profile of the 'James Bond' of cricket:

FULL NAME: Angus James Mackay
BORN: 13 June 1967, Harare
KNOWN AS: Gus Mackay

'The' Gus Mackay.

Hero.
Sportsman.
Artist.
Player.

**
Q. VUSI SIBANDA, WHERE DO YOU HOP?

A. UNDA DA ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE*

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