Zim vs Eng 2003 vs 2025

[ZIMDOGGY]

6-Sikandar Raza(Bat-Avg 36.74, Bowl Avg 40.78)


13-Wellington Masakadza(Bat-Avg 8.66, Bowl-Avg 30.69)

How exactly is raza the best spinner?

Raza is much better than Wellington. Remember the first half of Razas career he was just a bit part spinner like Wes or Waller. Then he developed it. He is ‘attacking’ as well whereas Wellington is more just a diddly dobbler. In other countries his bowling would be that as you would see as an all rounder.

[therealbigdeal]

9 year gap aside, Williams and Ervine are our stars. Players like Carlisle were just making the team. See the difference?

Away Test Stats:

Carlisle

Matches: 19

Runs: 904

High Score: 118

Batting Average: 26.58


Ervine
Matches: 11

Runs: 592

High Score: 160

Batting Average: 29.60


Sikandar Raza
Matches: 7

Runs: 411

High Score: 82

Batting Average: 34.25


Sean Williams
Matches: 8

Runs: 423

High Score: 161

Batting Average: 35.25

Detailed:
Carlisle
In Australia: 2 Matches, 160 Runs, HS: 118, Avg: 40.00

In Bangladesh: 2 Matches, 47 Runs, HS: 33, Avg: 15.66

In England: 3 Matches, 63 Runs, HS: 28, Avg: 15.75

In India: 4 Matches, 291 Runs, HS: 77, Avg: 36.37

In New Zealand: 3 Matches, 109 Runs, HS: 58, Avg: 21.80

In Sri Lanka: 3 Matches, 163 Runs, HS: 64, Avg: 27.16

In West Indies: 2 Matches, 71 Runs, HS: 44, Avg: 17.75


Ervine (Bat-Avg: 32.62, Bowl-Avg: 43.11)
In Bangladesh: 6 Matches, 310 Runs, HS: 107, Avg: 26.01

In South Africa: 1 Match, 27 Runs, HS: 23, Avg: 13.50

In Ireland: 1 Match, 12 Runs, HS: 7, Avg: 6.00

In Sri Lanka: 1 Match, 165 Runs, HS: 160, Avg: 82.50

In West Indies: 2 Matches, 78 Runs, HS: 29, Avg: 26.00


Raza (Bat-Avg: 35.59)
In Bangladesh: 3 Matches, 204 Runs, HS: 82, Avg: 34.00

In Sri Lanka: 2 Matches, 127 Runs, HS: 72, Avg: 31.77

In West Indies: 2 Matches, 80 Runs, HS: 80, Avg: 40.00


Williams (Bat-Avg: 44.57)
In Bangladesh: 5 Matches, 263 Runs, HS: 161, Avg: 52.60

In West Indies: 2 Matches, 107 Runs, HS: 73, Avg: 26.75

In Sri Lanka: 1 Match, 53 Runs, HS: 53, Avg: 26.50


Home Stats:
Carlisle

Matches: 18

Runs: 711

High Score: 103

Batting Average: 27.34


Ervine
Matches: 14

Runs: 1054

High Score: 146

Batting Average: 41.01


Sikandar Raza
Matches: 10

Runs: 703

High Score: 202

Batting Average: 41.35


Sean Williams
Matches: 14

Runs: 1023

High Score: 151*

Batting Average: 43.17


Carlisle would've been averaging under 30 even today.

[zimbot]

Carlisle would've been averaging under 30 even today.

Maybe, maybe not. We will never know.

Take note that he played during a different era. Today, pitches are flatter and bats are thicker.

Besides, the calibre of bowlers that Carlisle faced is miles ahead of what the our team is exposed to today. Vaas, Muralitharan, Warne, McGrath, Gillespie, Kumble etc. None of the modern day guys have been exposed to this calibre of bowling, they only play Ireland and Afghanistan (no disrespect).

I would take Stuart Carlisle over Craig Ervine any day.

[therealbigdeal]

Of course Carlisle is better but not significantly. Ervine scored that 100 in SL facing Herath and Malinga. They're as good as it gets in SL terms. But again, he struggles against the moving ball and since we don't play Eng, Aus often we don't see it. But as a complete package, there's not a massive gap between the two like it's made out to be. Carlisle never scored a hundred in Ban or SL but Craig has.

[ZIMDOGGY]

9 year gap aside, Williams and Ervine are our stars. Players like Carlisle were just making the team. See the difference?

Away Test Stats:

Carlisle

Matches: 19

Runs: 904

High Score: 118

Batting Average: 26.58


Ervine
Matches: 11

Runs: 592

High Score: 160

Batting Average: 29.60


Sikandar Raza
Matches: 7

Runs: 411

High Score: 82

Batting Average: 34.25


Sean Williams
Matches: 8

Runs: 423

High Score: 161

Batting Average: 35.25

Detailed:
Carlisle
In Australia: 2 Matches, 160 Runs, HS: 118, Avg: 40.00

In Bangladesh: 2 Matches, 47 Runs, HS: 33, Avg: 15.66

In England: 3 Matches, 63 Runs, HS: 28, Avg: 15.75

In India: 4 Matches, 291 Runs, HS: 77, Avg: 36.37

In New Zealand: 3 Matches, 109 Runs, HS: 58, Avg: 21.80

In Sri Lanka: 3 Matches, 163 Runs, HS: 64, Avg: 27.16

In West Indies: 2 Matches, 71 Runs, HS: 44, Avg: 17.75


Ervine (Bat-Avg: 32.62, Bowl-Avg: 43.11)
In Bangladesh: 6 Matches, 310 Runs, HS: 107, Avg: 26.01

In South Africa: 1 Match, 27 Runs, HS: 23, Avg: 13.50

In Ireland: 1 Match, 12 Runs, HS: 7, Avg: 6.00

In Sri Lanka: 1 Match, 165 Runs, HS: 160, Avg: 82.50

In West Indies: 2 Matches, 78 Runs, HS: 29, Avg: 26.00


Raza (Bat-Avg: 35.59)
In Bangladesh: 3 Matches, 204 Runs, HS: 82, Avg: 34.00

In Sri Lanka: 2 Matches, 127 Runs, HS: 72, Avg: 31.77

In West Indies: 2 Matches, 80 Runs, HS: 80, Avg: 40.00


Williams (Bat-Avg: 44.57)
In Bangladesh: 5 Matches, 263 Runs, HS: 161, Avg: 52.60

In West Indies: 2 Matches, 107 Runs, HS: 73, Avg: 26.75

In Sri Lanka: 1 Match, 53 Runs, HS: 53, Avg: 26.50


Home Stats:
Carlisle

Matches: 18

Runs: 711

High Score: 103

Batting Average: 27.34


Ervine
Matches: 14

Runs: 1054

High Score: 146

Batting Average: 41.01


Sikandar Raza
Matches: 10

Runs: 703

High Score: 202

Batting Average: 41.35


Sean Williams
Matches: 14

Runs: 1023

High Score: 151*

Batting Average: 43.17


Carlisle would've been averaging under 30 even today.

You actually proved my point better than I did ??:

[ZIMDOGGY]

What’s complex is we are dealing with players in certain eras.
2003 pre brain injury Vermeulen was a gun. 30 year old Williams and Ervine were peak. They are 38/39 now.
2003 was also the era Streak started becoming a genuine batsman.

I’ll take a stab at a combine.

1. Grant flower
2. Vermeuelen
3. Carlisle
4. Willo
5. Raza.
6. Ervine C
7. Ervine S
8. Streak
9. Taibu
10. Blignaut
11. Blessing
If the wicket is spinning, Price in for bligs.

Extended squad.
Bennet.
Richie N

[ZIMDOGGY]

Also kinda crazy we have two brothers here 20+ years apart who aren’t even that far away from each other in age.
From 2021-2025 ‘Ervine’ has been a mainstay name in Zimbabwean cricket lineups

[eugene]

It is hard to know how Williams and C Ervine would fair against the top six, simply because they've rarely played them - they can only score runs against those in front of them. Williams is surely a superior talent to Carlisle. Craig Ervine and Carlisle seem sort of similar I guess? I could see peak Craig scoring a test century in Australia, but also struggling for stretches, much like Carlisle did.

[TapsC2]

This is a good debate and why these upcoming test matches are very important from a legacy perspective for Ervine, Williams and Raza. They have to score runs to kill that debate. It's a shame BT will miss that opportunity.

Bennett, Welch and Curran also have to work on their technical issues because they will be exposed quickly. Bennett is now at that stage where there is enough footage of him.

I actually think the person who would make a combined team with ease and is a bout to show it is Blessing. Even throughout his career he has picked up some big wickets. Now he has been given an opportunity to show what he is about.

[Andybligzz]

This is a good debate and why these upcoming test matches are very important from a legacy perspective for Ervine, Williams and Raza. They have to score runs to kill that debate. It's a shame BT will miss that opportunity.

Bennett, Welch and Curran also have to work on their technical issues because they will be exposed quickly. Bennett is now at that stage where there is enough footage of him.

I actually think the person who would make a combined team with ease and is a bout to show it is Blessing. Even throughout his career he has picked up some big wickets. Now he has been given an opportunity to show what he is about.

Harsh, they are all nearly 40.If they got a shot in England say in their prime 29-33 that would be fair. But to think at the twilight of their careers, they have to go play in a country they have hardly / never played in, against higher quality cricketers they hardly / never have faced is very unfair. I think Williams is arguably top 5 most talented cricketers we have produced, he is a living / playing current legend. Highly respected around the world , still at 38 years of age. The 2003 team is winning purely on the higher level of skill they consistently got to play against, but would be a fantastic match. Our current openers are stronger than 2003 in my opinion, our middle order currently is just as good if not better. But the 2003 bats deep and so many bowling options mixed with variety. 2003 wins just imo