Zimbabwe rising stars

[sloandog]

You know what, that was your best post. I also agree with you that Adile has what it takes at the national level. I like the fact that he can hit the ball hard and can bowl at a decent click. His ODI stats are good.

Sometimes, potential should outweigh stats; it isn't always fair, I know, but look at kids like Alsari Josef from the West Indies. Young, fast, raw and was selected on ability. I firmly believe that Andile has what it takes (at least at ODI level) to be a very good international all-rounder. Muelder will make the side, his talent is indisputable and his stats back up his potential. Pretorious I would love to see in the test side, I'm not going to lie. I think he's a quality batter and could certainly do a job wit

Ngidi is another one who excites me. He's got pace and bounce and wants to bowl fast, very much in the mold of Rabada. Granted, he's nowhere near the level of KG but again, he has the raw materials to reach it. Bavuma has shown he has what it takes at test level, anybody who argues otherwise is severely stupid. The kid can bat.

Bosch was an average seam bowler...barely touching 80mph in the Under 19's CWC in 14'. You can hardly say he's a better pick than Andile of Ngidi.

Some people need to stop being so bitter, stop thinking that the quota system is there to put you out of a job. It's there to provide equal opportunities to guys like Shamsi, Maharaj, Ngidi and Aandile etc. If these white guys were good enough, they'd be there, simple.

Final point, Markhram is class and I actually can not wait to see him in this SA team alongside De Kock.

[jaybro]

Honestly Bavuma hasn't really set the world on fire, an average of 31 for South Africa is pretty poor, he looks like he might be a good player but when you look at someone like Cook copped so much criticism and he has a slightly better record opening the batting as well and if you ask Hhm that's a much harder gig. Rabada is obviously there on talent, stats, potential, x-factor, what ever criteria he meets it, but there's a massive question mark over some of the other African dudes if they would be in the side if it wasn't for the quota system. I don't know why people try and argue it now CSA have clearly stated they have this quota system in place there's no denying it ......

[Flakeman]

I severely disagree with HHM and am finding it hard to believe that Sloandog agrees with him. Might be the fact that he comes from U.K. And doesn't experience the pains of quotas and how it's effecting the communities.

HHM your cherry picking is misleading in a massive sense. Phelukwayo is not a good cricketer by international standards. I don't know how you two don't see it? He trundles in and bowls shapeless 130kmh up and downers and is a mediocre batsman who relies on his Aus innings (the one that should have seen him depart for a first baller) as to be seen as an "all rounder".
I'm talking about Franchise stats you half wit ! The black guys are the ones who play more in the second division and still have kak stats.

Ngidi literally had 2 good T20 games against SL. He gets beaten at Franchise level and got outright humiliated vs Eng Lions

Bavuma is doing ok, that average of 30 for a specialist batsman batting at the easiest time of an innings isn't at all good !

Hardus Viljoen was a pure X factor player, the way he dominated Franchise cricket is scary ! His stats are good but I'll refer to your visual potential you speak of, he made almost all Franchise batsmen jump around the crease so often ! Pure quality as a pacer

Dwaine Pretorius has sublime FRANCHISE cricket stats, he should be playing in England right now in the Test series ! He is a really good batsman and his seamers from 6ft6 would be a handful right now ! But hay, I'm debating with a guy who doesn't use too much common sense.

And I was talking about another Van Der Merwe, he had something !

U say Bosch was average? Maybe so, but his stats were good and he had heart ! Certainly better than Phelukwayo !

The fact that u even comment positively on Ramela is enough to prove your stupidity. I don't know if you watch Franchise cricket on Supersport but he looks so out of his depth there that Cobras didn't even want him anymore. He's a professional batsman that gets dotted up for fun. I dunno if it was Ramela or another quota batting with Levi a year or so ago, Levi was on about 75 off 39 and the idiot at the other end couldn't get off strike and was on about 7 off 40 in Momentum One Day Cup match! The look on Levi's face was priceless.

[sloandog]

I'm agreeing with the both of you. I think you both have really strong cases, personally. Ramela I have personally seen bat and never once rated him. When I was referring to Ngidi, I was referring to his pace. He bowled a ball at 91mph to Angelo Matthews in that T20 series; pace can't be coached, and this kid evidently has some pace. There's something to work with there, is what I was saying mate. He's probably nowhere near ready for international cricket, but to me, he looked exciting.

Also agree that Pretorious should be in the test side. Not so much the ODI set up as that medium pace is cannon fodder, but in the longer format (as his Franchise stats show) they are dangerous. Him, Muelder and Markhram are three highly talented players who need the exposure and the opportunities.

Standing by what I say about Andile. I like him. He's still only a kid, and the more genuine black talents that make the side on merit is only a good thing. JP Duminy, I hope, has now finally gone as he was not deserving of a place and rapidly turned into a quota player, which is a shame as he started out with a bang in 2008 in Oz.

Transformation is a good thing and giving these lads a shot is the way forward, however I agree with Flakeman that it has to be merited. Being picked on potential, talent, pace, ability to change a game (even if not proven yet) for me, warrants a chance. What I don't like is the idea of guys like Moshekle, Ramela etc getting into the side in order to fulfil the quote.

Khaya Zonda has done okish for the A side, actually. I've just had a gander at his stats .

[Flakeman]

Yeah pal, fair enough. I don't care what color they are, if they are good enough, then get them in the team. But this whole forced selection without any merit creates such a racial division in a country with baggage that had died off to a degree for a brief period. It's the ANC way to win win votes. I just get irritated that these black players actually feel they deserve to be there,such is their culture it seems, can't say no to handouts. Only exception is Langeveldt, what an honorable guy, but he was a quite whitish colored.

As for Ngidi there is potential there, no doubt, but I get extremely irritated when he says "People have just got to learn to accept transformation", this is an entitled mindset especially seeing as he is where he is thanks to whites giving him a scholarship to Hilton College to get a proper coaching. Talk about biting the hand that fed you.

[zimfan1]

Bavuma scores nice 30s and 40s but I can't see him knocking up big scores consistently.

My big fear is that CSA are going to ruin Rabada by making him play every game in order to meet the average quota over the season which will destroy his body leaving him on the scrapheap by the age of 29.

[eugene]

Has anyone legally challenged quotas in the international courts?

[jaybro]

Bavuma scores nice 30s and 40s but I can't see him knocking up big scores consistently.

My big fear is that CSA are going to ruin Rabada by making him play every game in order to meet the average quota over the season which will destroy his body leaving him on the scrapheap by the age of 29.

I've said that before about Rabada that they'll run him into the ground trying to meet the quota target, Rabada & Bavuma are going to be selected in every Test side for RSA because no other black player is up to test standards at this point. Hopefully one of those other young black quicks can progress into a quality test bowler to save poor old Rabada from being ruined ......

[Flakeman]

No they must fail at international level so it draws more and more obvious that this system is killing the game for white people ! Politics and sport NEVER mix ! I want it to fail dismally so light is brought to the subject so that people are forced to do something about it ! Pick players on merit FFS !!!!

[Kriterion_BD]

Whoa, this has become a discussion on quotas or what we call in the US affirmitive action.

Affirmitive action is a less than ideal solution for a less than ideal world with its less than ideal realities. Put another way, its a fucked up plan for a fucked up world with fucked up realities.

I can only speak of the US but I know you can generally apply that shit to any country of the world.

Blacks were historically margianlized in the US. Even racists don't try to deny that. Everybody should be selected on merit...but that only applies if everyone has the same level playing field. The problem occurs when people keep insisting that there is no white privilege. There have been countless studies In America that job applicants with superior credentials but with "black" sounding names are 20% as likely as a whites with even a criminal record of getting a interview. Thats a real impediment to upward mobility.

Now I don't think quotas should exist in competitive sports...if the playing field is level.

But in terms of engineering, medicine, the police force, etc we must recognize that until we achieve the goal of having a colorless society, quotas/affirmative action are a necessary evil.